SGU Episode 905

This episode was transcribed by the Google Web Speech API Demonstration (or another automatic method) and therefore will require careful proof-reading.

This transcript is not finished. Please help us finish it! Add a Transcribing template to the top of this transcript before you start so that we don't duplicate your efforts.

This episode needs: transcription, time stamps, formatting, links, 'Today I Learned' list, categories, segment redirects. Please help out by contributing!

How to Contribute

This is an outline for a typical episode's transcription. Not all of these segments feature in each episode.
There may also be additional/special segments not listed in this outline.

You can use this outline to help structure the transcription. Click "Edit" above to begin.

SGU Episode 905
November 12th 2022
Click for the gallery of uploaded files Add an appropriate caption here for the episode icon
SGU 904                      SGU 906
Skeptical Rogues
S: Steven Novella
Quote of the Week
QUOTE
AUTHOR, _short_description_
Links
Download Podcast
Show Notes
[ https://sguforums.org/index.php?BOARD=1.0 Forum Discussion]

Introduction

Voice-over: You're listening to the Skeptics' Guide to the Universe, your escape to reality.

00:09.000 --> 00:13.000 Hello and welcome to the Skeptic's Guide to the Universe.

00:13.000 --> 00:18.000 Today is Thursday, November 10th, 2022, and this is your host, Stephen Novella.

00:18.000 --> 00:20.000 Joining me this week are Bob Novella.

00:20.000 --> 00:21.000 Hey everybody.

00:21.000 --> 00:22.000 Kara Santamaria.

00:22.000 --> 00:23.000 Howdy.

00:23.000 --> 00:24.000 Jay Novella.

00:24.000 --> 00:25.000 Hey guys.

00:25.000 --> 00:26.000 And Evan Bernstein.

00:26.000 --> 00:27.000 Good evening, everyone.

00:27.000 --> 00:33.000 So Evan, you were recently at PsyCon, the CSI's annual conference.

00:33.000 --> 00:34.000 Isn't that right?

00:34.000 --> 00:35.000 Yes, I was.

00:35.000 --> 00:37.000 I wasn't there long.

00:37.000 --> 00:43.000 I happened to be in Las Vegas on the same weekend that my sister got married in Las

00:43.000 --> 00:44.000 Vegas.

00:44.000 --> 00:48.000 So you skipped the wedding and went to the conference?

00:48.000 --> 00:49.000 Almost.

00:49.000 --> 00:55.640 It was just across the street at the Hotel Flamingo where the CSI conference was happening,

00:55.640 --> 01:00.480 so I went over there for a few hours and saw some people, saw some faces I hadn't seen

01:00.480 --> 01:05.680 and oh my gosh, at least since the last time we were at CSI back in 2018 and even before

01:05.680 --> 01:06.680 that with some other people.

01:06.680 --> 01:07.680 Yeah, and the before time.

01:07.680 --> 01:08.680 Yeah, before the pandemic.

01:08.680 --> 01:09.680 And the before times.

01:09.680 --> 01:10.680 The pre.

01:10.680 --> 01:17.280 So in case anyone listening doesn't know, the CSI, the Committee for Skeptical Inquiry,

01:17.280 --> 01:18.280 used to be Psycop.

01:18.280 --> 01:21.760 They're the biggest national skeptical organization.

01:21.760 --> 01:28.840 They've been around since, I think, the mid-70s, 75, 76.

01:28.840 --> 01:33.880 They publish the Skeptical Inquirer, which is an excellent skeptical magazine.

01:33.880 --> 01:39.960 I get it every month, so one of the few things I enjoy reading cover to cover.

01:39.960 --> 01:47.320 Unfortunately, the editor of the Skeptical Inquirer, Kendrick Frazier, who we all know,

01:47.320 --> 01:49.640 somebody we would see at the conferences.

01:49.640 --> 01:51.360 He died two days ago.

01:51.360 --> 01:53.600 He was 80 years old.

01:53.600 --> 01:54.600 So good run.

01:54.600 --> 01:55.680 Apparently, he was sick.

01:55.680 --> 01:56.680 People knew.

01:56.680 --> 01:57.680 It wasn't like a surprise.

01:57.680 --> 02:02.600 It was known that he was, you know, that he was sick and was going to die soon.

02:02.600 --> 02:06.120 I got out, I think, two days before he passed away.

02:06.120 --> 02:09.820 I got an email from CSI letting us know, you know, what was going on.

02:09.820 --> 02:13.640 So yeah, it's always sad for, you know, a fellow skeptic to pass and he was, you know,

02:13.640 --> 02:18.560 basically dedicated majority of his adult life to promoting science and skepticism,

02:18.560 --> 02:21.140 you know, through his work through CSI.

02:21.140 --> 02:27.240 When we first went to, well, at least my experience, my first time going up to their facility in

02:27.240 --> 02:35.440 Buffalo was back in 1997 with you guys, and that was when I first met Kendrick then.

02:35.440 --> 02:40.780 And he then, as you said, Steve, sort of was a fixture of all the conferences that had

02:40.780 --> 02:41.780 taken place.

02:41.780 --> 02:44.740 He was one of the familiar faces there.

02:44.740 --> 02:47.360 You always saw him at these skeptic conferences.

02:47.360 --> 02:51.120 Yeah, there's a lot of characters in the skeptical movement, you know what I mean?

02:51.120 --> 02:55.440 Like there's a lot of people you meet that have strong personalities.

02:55.440 --> 03:00.960 And Kendrick was just like, as you say, just a fixture, just a real professional, just

03:00.960 --> 03:03.640 always there, just doing his job, you know, getting it done.

03:03.640 --> 03:04.640 You know what I mean?

03:04.640 --> 03:06.440 He's also always a super nice guy.

03:06.440 --> 03:07.440 Absolutely.

03:07.440 --> 03:10.600 A very no drama kind of executive kind of person.

03:10.600 --> 03:12.160 Yeah, even keel.

03:12.160 --> 03:14.960 And a big Los Angeles Dodgers fan, if I recall.

03:14.960 --> 03:20.400 He was, I remember at the last conference I saw him, this was back in 2018 when we were

03:20.400 --> 03:25.800 in Las Vegas, at the conference he was there and he was wearing a Dodgers jersey.

03:25.800 --> 03:30.320 And he was very happy and proud talking about his Dodgers who were, I believe, in the World

03:30.320 --> 03:32.600 Series, had just gotten to the World Series that year.

03:32.600 --> 03:38.200 And he was making plans, OK, I have to be here for this talk and I have to give a talk

03:38.200 --> 03:41.320 here, but then I'm going to sneak away and go see the baseball game for a while and then

03:41.320 --> 03:43.220 I'll be back.

03:43.220 --> 03:47.400 So he was apparently a very big baseball fan and loved his Dodgers.

03:47.400 --> 03:51.000 He was the author or editor on 10 different books.

03:51.000 --> 03:53.400 And I didn't know this, he was a fellow of the AAAS.

03:53.400 --> 03:57.960 Is he a scientist or just a science writer?

03:57.960 --> 04:01.520 More of a science writer than a practicing scientist, but he has a science education,

04:01.520 --> 04:02.520 yeah.

Dumbest Thing of the Week ()

• [link_URL TITLE]

04:02.520 --> 04:06.920 All right, so we're going to move on with our news items, but Evan, you're going to

04:06.920 --> 04:09.720 start us off with a Dumbest Thing of the Week.

04:09.720 --> 04:11.120 Yeah, Dumbest Thing of the Week.

04:11.120 --> 04:12.400 Do you want me to sing the song?

04:12.400 --> 04:13.400 No, not really.

04:13.400 --> 04:15.960 Kara, do you want me to sing the song?

04:15.960 --> 04:21.200 I'm going to say no also, I'm going to get in trouble.

04:21.200 --> 04:27.680 Then you know what, I'll not sing it this week, but if a listener writes us and says

04:27.680 --> 04:32.160 next time they want to hear it, it's going to happen, but I'll spare you, I'll spare

04:32.160 --> 04:35.400 you the enjoyment of me singing that song this week.

04:35.400 --> 04:36.400 Dumbest Thing of the Week.

04:36.400 --> 04:41.600 All right, Norway's Prince Louise, she is quitting her royal duties, it was announced

04:41.600 --> 04:42.600 a few days ago.

04:42.600 --> 04:44.520 Oh, she wants to have a really good reason.

04:44.520 --> 04:45.600 Oh, absolutely.

04:45.600 --> 04:50.600 She's going to devote all of her time to her true passion in life, alternative medicine.

04:50.600 --> 04:51.600 Oh, boy.

04:51.600 --> 04:52.600 What?

04:52.600 --> 04:53.600 Oh, yeah.

04:53.600 --> 04:54.600 What does that mean?

04:54.600 --> 04:59.880 Well, I will explain, and you know the definition of alternative medicine is anything that is

04:59.880 --> 05:06.160 not medicine, just so we're clear about that, but this is essentially almost a follow-up

05:06.160 --> 05:11.640 news item to one that I had talked about back in June of this year concerning Princess Louise.

05:11.640 --> 05:18.360 If you remember that her fiancé announced, and his name is Shaman Durek, that he had

05:18.360 --> 05:22.680 become engaged to the princess, Princess Louise of Norway.

05:22.680 --> 05:30.320 Shaman Durek, a sixth-generation shaman, author of the best-selling book, best-seller book,

05:30.320 --> 05:36.520 Spirit Hacking, Shamanic Keys to Reclaim Your Personal Power, Transform Yourself, and

05:36.520 --> 05:37.720 Light Up the World.

05:37.720 --> 05:42.600 Yes, the book in which he claims many things, including that childhood cancer is caused

05:42.600 --> 05:45.000 by unhappiness.

05:45.000 --> 05:49.120 Perhaps that will ring a bell as to the last news item I spoke about in regards to him.

05:49.120 --> 05:51.200 Let's blame the kids for their own cancer.

05:51.200 --> 05:52.200 That's a good idea.

05:52.200 --> 05:58.640 Yeah, that's a wonderful, wonderful scientifically-based philosophy that he espouses.

05:58.640 --> 06:00.640 And there are other gems in that book.

06:00.640 --> 06:03.580 Yeah, and the book got pulled from publishers.

06:03.580 --> 06:08.000 Many publishers in Europe realized, oh, this is bad, it's coming out.

06:08.000 --> 06:10.080 And Norway also pulled the book.

06:10.080 --> 06:11.880 They said, nope, sorry, not here.

06:11.880 --> 06:13.960 I think in America it stayed on the shelf.

06:13.960 --> 06:18.440 We have apparently a higher tolerance for dangerous health claims here in America than

06:18.440 --> 06:21.660 they do in Europe when it comes to these things.

06:21.660 --> 06:27.480 But Shaman Durek, he helps his victims, I mean clients, tap into their personal power

06:27.480 --> 06:31.640 and this is his words, while unblocking negative patterns that prevent them from reaching their

06:31.640 --> 06:33.600 optimal human performance.

06:33.600 --> 06:35.760 Does it get more gobbledygook than that?

06:35.760 --> 06:37.080 No, it does not.

06:37.080 --> 06:39.680 Now clearly he's beloved in Norway, apparently, right?

06:39.680 --> 06:42.320 Oh wait, the Wikipedia page about him, let's see.

06:42.320 --> 06:46.240 He advocates several conspiracy theories and has been characterized by Norwegian media

06:46.240 --> 06:48.580 and other critics as a con man.

06:48.580 --> 06:52.960 His only book was described by critics as nonsense, garbage, and dirty talk, and the

06:52.960 --> 06:54.680 ravings of a lunatic.

06:54.680 --> 06:58.300 But you know, he's actually a misunderstood soul.

06:58.300 --> 07:03.040 He addresses his critics and naysayers by comparing himself to the likes of Albert Einstein

07:03.040 --> 07:08.440 and Thomas Edison, claiming that they too were geniuses and simply misunderstood.

07:08.440 --> 07:11.960 Where have we heard that before?

07:11.960 --> 07:15.840 Now if all that background wasn't enough, he has the full endorsement and friendship

07:15.840 --> 07:18.360 of Gwyneth Paltrow and the Goop Parade.

07:18.360 --> 07:21.040 So that, I think, sums him up pretty well.

07:21.040 --> 07:25.800 So yeah, they're engaged, Princess Louise and the Shaman.

07:25.800 --> 07:31.360 But in this latest update, which came courtesy of the BBC, among other news outlets that

07:31.360 --> 07:36.060 picked it up, she has relinquished her royal duties, yes, she's going to focus on her

07:36.060 --> 07:41.160 alternative medicine business with the showman, I mean the Shaman.

07:41.160 --> 07:45.800 And Princess Louise, here's what she says, she's aware of the importance of research

07:45.800 --> 07:51.580 based knowledge, but she believes alternative medicine can be an important supplement to

07:51.580 --> 07:54.240 help the conventional medical establishment.

07:54.240 --> 08:00.880 Yeah, just like putting a little bit of manure on your ice cream supplements it and makes

08:00.880 --> 08:02.160 it better.

08:02.160 --> 08:04.680 And yeah, so we hear that before all the time.

08:04.680 --> 08:10.240 Oh, here's what else she says, a warm hand, an acupuncture needle, a crystal, natural

08:10.240 --> 08:15.960 remedies, yoga, meditation, or therapeutic conversation can, I believe, help to make

08:15.960 --> 08:18.320 life better for many individuals.

08:18.320 --> 08:20.480 You see what the pseudoscientists do?

08:20.480 --> 08:25.120 They blend the crazy ideas, you know, the acupuncture, the crystals, those natural

08:25.120 --> 08:32.040 remedies, with the non-crazy ideas, you know, meditation, yoga, conversation with therapists.

08:32.040 --> 08:36.560 You know, they couch themselves as being sort of these moderates, almost rationals, instead

08:36.560 --> 08:41.900 of just emphasizing the outright quackery agenda that they have.

08:41.900 --> 08:47.820 And they blend the two, they mix the two, it's a deception, is what it is.

08:47.820 --> 08:52.440 She also says, I also believe that there are components of a good life in sound physical

08:52.440 --> 08:57.760 and mental health that may not be so easy to sum up in a research report.

08:57.760 --> 09:02.560 Translation, scientific research and analysis is lacking and therefore any of the blanks

09:02.560 --> 09:08.280 that science can't answer means the answer lies in unfounded beliefs and ideas that are

09:08.280 --> 09:10.400 untethered to reality.

09:10.400 --> 09:13.000 Or I could ignore science whenever I want.

09:13.000 --> 09:16.080 Instead, go with what your gut is telling you in a way.

09:16.080 --> 09:21.960 The princess, yes, she's controversial and has been so for many decades.

09:21.960 --> 09:28.760 She started a school, this was back in 2007, to help people get in touch with their angels.

09:28.760 --> 09:33.760 And not in a metaphoric way, to get in touch with their angels.

09:33.760 --> 09:37.360 Angels exist and you can communicate with them.

09:37.360 --> 09:39.800 And she's been doing this ever since she was a child.

09:39.800 --> 09:44.200 And she's brought it with her, now she's I think in her 50s, so well into adulthood.

09:44.200 --> 09:48.400 She and a friend opened that school together back in 2007, the school has since closed

09:48.400 --> 09:49.400 in 2018.

09:49.400 --> 09:55.140 It didn't quite go I think as planned and had financial problems, she had to sell one

09:55.140 --> 09:58.080 of her houses in order to pay off the debts and so forth.

09:58.080 --> 10:00.000 So that went down.

10:00.000 --> 10:05.900 But there were some exposés and some things written about the school and they actually

10:05.900 --> 10:11.480 went into the school to do some, well to observe what exactly was going on.

10:11.480 --> 10:16.120 And they took some video about what was going on inside the classrooms there.

10:16.120 --> 10:22.620 And here's what they said, it mostly showed the princess and her friend, the other teacher,

10:22.620 --> 10:27.720 they would meditate with clients, trying to summon the spiritual energy needed to recognize

10:27.720 --> 10:30.440 and communicate with angels.

10:30.440 --> 10:31.440 That's it.

10:31.440 --> 10:32.440 That's all they did.

10:32.440 --> 10:37.880 They sat, I don't know, a seance, for lack of a better term, I don't know how else

10:37.880 --> 10:40.080 to really compare that.

10:40.080 --> 10:46.400 But hey, for $1,500 a class or a course, a semester, I have no idea, probably six classes,

10:46.400 --> 10:49.140 $1,500, that's what you would get.

10:49.140 --> 10:55.640 And yeah, you would use these angels to empower yourself and create miracles in your own life.

10:55.640 --> 10:59.600 These are all quotes right from their website, right from their literature.

10:59.600 --> 11:02.960 What is her business going to be, nobody really knows, time will tell.

11:02.960 --> 11:07.600 But based on her history and the history of her fiancé and the company that she keeps

11:07.600 --> 11:11.640 and the fact that her own family effectively cast her out because she's unpopular and

11:11.640 --> 11:17.540 detached from reality, I think we can safely assume that her foray into full-time pseudoscience

11:17.540 --> 11:21.440 will be, what, to be continued.

11:21.440 --> 11:22.440 We will find out.

11:22.440 --> 11:25.400 So this is, I have two minds on this story.

11:25.400 --> 11:30.880 One is that, you know, it always makes me sad to think of people dedicating their life

11:30.880 --> 11:31.880 to nonsense.

11:31.880 --> 11:32.880 You know what I mean?

11:32.880 --> 11:39.920 It's like, they're going to put so much time and energy into a fantasy that they think

11:39.920 --> 11:44.960 is real because they have bought into it, and it's just such a waste.

11:44.960 --> 11:50.220 But also, she seems to have been into this since she was a child, right, so this just

11:50.220 --> 11:54.320 may be her predisposition rather than being seduced by it.

11:54.320 --> 11:57.480 She sounds like she's like all in from the beginning.

11:57.480 --> 12:03.040 And she's made a choice here, Steve, a choice that so few people in life have, especially

12:03.040 --> 12:10.000 with someone of her exposure, her power, the wealth and the exposure that comes along with

12:10.000 --> 12:15.600 being part of a royal family and the good work that you could potentially be doing.

12:15.600 --> 12:20.940 And you're shunting that, you're throwing that away and that possibility in order to

12:20.940 --> 12:24.360 go down this specific route in life.

12:24.360 --> 12:25.360 That makes it worse.

12:25.360 --> 12:27.600 All right, thanks, Evan.

12:27.600 --> 12:28.600 There you go.

This Day in Skepticism ()

• _Event_

Forgotten Superheroes of Science ()

• _Person_People_Group_

"5 to 10 Years" ()

• [link_URL TITLE]

What's the Word? ()

• Word_Topic_Concept

_consider_using_block_quotes_for_emails_read_aloud_in_this_segment_

Your Number's Up ()

• _Number_Topic_Concept_

Quickie with Bob ()

• [link_URL TITLE]

News Items

S:

B:

C:

J:

E:

(laughs) (laughter) (applause) [inaudible]

News_Item_1 (mm:ss)

• [link_URL TITLE]

News_Item_2 ()

• [link_URL TITLE]

News_Item_3 ()

• [link_URL TITLE]

News_Item_4 ()

• [link_URL TITLE]

News_Item_5 ()

• [link_URL TITLE]

[top]                        

Interview with ___ ()

• _Interviewee_Topic_Event_
• [link_URL _homepage_or_article_title_]

Skeptical Puzzle ()

• Answer to last week's Puzzle: _brief_description_perhaps_with_link_

Who's That Noisy? ()

Answer to previous Noisy:

_brief_description_of_answer_ _perhaps_with_a_link_

New Noisy ()

[_short_vague_description_of_Noisy]

short_text_from_transcript

Name That Logical Fallacy ()

• _Fallacy_Topic_Event_
• [link_URL TITLE]

_consider_using_block_quotes_for_emails_read_aloud_in_this_segment_
with_reduced_spacing_for_long_chunks –

Questions/Emails/Corrections/Follow-ups ()

_consider_using_block_quotes_for_emails_read_aloud_in_this_segment_
with_reduced_spacing_for_long_chunks –

Question_Email_Correction #2: _brief_description_ ()

[top]                        

Science or Fiction (h:mm:ss)

Item #1: _item_text_from_show_notes_ Item #2: _item_text_from_show_notes_ Item #3: _item_text_from_show_notes_ Item #4: (_item_text_from_show_notes_)

Answer	Item
Fiction
Science

Host	Result
Steve

Rogue	Guess

Voice-over: It's time for Science or Fiction.

Skeptical Quote of the Week ()

TEXT
– AUTHOR (YYYY-YYYY), _short_description_

Signoff/Announcements ()

S: —and until next week, this is your Skeptics' Guide to the Universe.

S: Skeptics' Guide to the Universe is produced by SGU Productions, dedicated to promoting science and critical thinking. For more information, visit us at theskepticsguide.org. Send your questions to info@theskepticsguide.org. And, if you would like to support the show and all the work that we do, go to patreon.com/SkepticsGuide and consider becoming a patron and becoming part of the SGU community. Our listeners and supporters are what make SGU possible.

[top]                        

Today I Learned

• Fact/Description, possibly with an article reference
• Fact/Description
• Fact/Description

References

Vocabulary