SGU Episode 27

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SGU Episode 27
25th January 2006
(brief caption for the episode icon)
SGU 26                      SGU 28
Skeptical Rogues
S: Steven Novella
B: Bob Novella
J: Jay Novella
P: Perry DeAngelis
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Introduction

You're listening to the Skeptics' Guide to the Universe, your escape to reality. S: Hello and welcome to the Skeptic's Guide to the Universe. Today is Wednesday, January 25, 2006. This is your host, Steven Novella, President of the New England Skeptical Society. Joining me today are: Perry DeAngeles...

T: Hello, Everybody

S: Bob Novella...

B: Good Evening

S: And making a special reappearance, Jay Novella.

J: It's good to be back.

S: Yeah welcome back, Jay, it's good to have you again.

J: Yaaay.

laughter

T: Welcome, Jay. There's a rumor that Evan Berstein will be joining us little later.

S: He may be joining us a little bit later. He's not available at the moment. So there were a few news items to get things started. Evan sent me this one.

News Items

Most Earth-like Planet To Date Around Another Star (0:40)

S: He may be joining us a little bit later. He's not available at the moment. Um. So there were a few news items to get things started. Evan sent me this one: The um most Earth-like planet discovered to date around another star. So..

J: Pretty cool.

S: It is very cool. Um. The reason why this is interesting because, a few months ago, this was one of the science or fictions that we did where the fake one was where astronomers found an Earth-like planet around a nearby star. um...

P: Once again Dr. Novella ahead of the curve.

S: And.

P: On these matters.

laughter

S: And this was one that we knew was coming because they're finding more and more Earth-like planets. By "Earth-like," I mean ... the size

P: The size and class?

S: No. haha. Umm.

B: M-class planets?

P: M-class, sorry.

S: Not yet that close. Just, you know, smaller and at a distance from the sun that is, you know, that resembles that of the Earth. Most of the planets that scientists and astronomers have discovered so far are uh, Jovian-like planets, they're gas giants and they're also very close. Like within, oh, what would be the orbit of Mercury. So very close to their to their stars. They're easier to see. The bigger and closer they are, the easier it is for astronomers to see. But as they're refining their techniques, specifically, they're using a technique called microlensing to detect planets around stars. They're finding smaller and smaller planets farther and farther from their sun. The new record now ... um... and this was just announced in the last day or so. There's a planet that is about about 7. Um sorry

B: 5.5

S: 5.5 Earth-masses. So 5.5 times the mass of the earth. Mass of earth and

P: Does that mean, five, five and a half times the gravity?

S: Yes, and 2.5 astronomical units from its star. An astronomical unit being the distance from the Earth to the Sun. So, 2.5 times the distance from the Earth to the Sun.

ok

P: Why uhmm. Excuse me.

S: Go ahead.

P: So why basically um are uh, there are so many more gas giant type planets than planets like the Earth.

B: Well Perry, it's a situation where you're looking where the light's the best. That's really the only method we had when we were using the previosu method in determining the wobble that the planet exerted. The gravitational pull on the star. with the wobble; only a big planet close to the sun can produce that kind of effect, small planets can't. Now with this gravitational microlensing technique, now they are going to start seeing a lot more Earth-sized planets. So that. So basically the answer to the question is that those were the only ones we could detect using the old technique.

S: So we don't know. We don't really know, because we haven't really been able to look for the smaller planets. We're hoping of course that we're gonna find a lot of Earth-like planets around other stars. But it's also worth noting that this partical star is a red giant. Uh. It's a lot cooler and dimmer than our sun. So the; although um this planet is only about two and half times the distance from its star as the Earth is from the Sun, it's very very cold. It's about as cold as Pluto. Um.

P: That's cold

S: Yeah.

P: Hmmm

S: -364 degrees F. So ... Too cold to support liquid water and probably therefore life that we would recognize. So ...

J: What's the name of the planet?

S: Uh. The article does not have a name. It has a uh designation: "OGLE 2005 BLG 39 LB."

P: Right

B: There could, there could be life on that planet. I mean. There is .. You don't need photosynthesis for like it could be chemosynthetic life you know. Look at Europa. You got tidal forces. Well, it depends. If there's a lot of um tidal forces being acting on the planet, you would generate a lot of heat to melt ice and create a liquid environment (S: Hmmhmm) and minerals to produce life that may exist in Europa. I agree that could ...

S: Right or geothermal energy

B: Right.

P: So Bob, you think that surely there could be talking with "OGLE 2005 BLG 39 OLB - ians"?

laugher

P: Is that what you're saying?

B: Nope. and uh Nah. It's too far and it's.

J: One of my ex girlfriends

Science or Fiction (27:05)

(27:05)

S: We have a special treat this week guys. Perry is going to debut his first Science or Fiction It’s time to play, Science or Fiction.

P: Yay! Ok, so for Science or Fiction this week I’ve made a slight change. We’re going to give out 3 facts. And in this case 2 are false and 1 is true. Slightly different from normal.

B: Did you get authorization to make that change?

P: I am the executive director, I need none. 2 are false, and 1 is by definition true.

J: Which 2 are false?

P: Alright here it goes. You’ll tell me. Ok, A: Light travels at approximately 10 miles per hour. B: The Sun is approximately 10 miles from the Earth. C: Perry DeAngelis is demonstrably more intelligent than his colleagues on the Skeptic’s Guide to the Universe. 2 are false 1 is true. We’ll start with our president, Steven Novella MD.

S: This is a tough one. None of them sound true. I’m going to have to say the 10 miles per hour. That’s just the most plausible of the three.

P: That was a bit of levity here on Science and Fiction here tonight –

B: Actually, light can be made to travel very slowly depending on what medium it’s going through.

J: Very true, very true.

S: Yah, if it’s going through molasses it should travel very slowly.

P: And this levity is still carrying on. Very well, now moving on to the real Science and Fiction.

S: Oh that wasn’t real?

P: No, that wasn’t real. I said we’re having a bit of levity on SGU. So we’re back to our standard format. I’ll give you three items, one of which is false and two are accurate. Ok? Everybody with me?

J: Gotchya yes.

B: Gotchya.

S: Shoot.

P: Ok, just because I’ve always been interested in it, the sort of subject for my science o fiction is atomic time.

S: Atomic Time. That’s the theme for tonight.

P: Yes, that’s the theme.

B: Interesting.

P: Ok, so A) The atomic clock kept at the US Naval Observatory is in fact 556 atomic clocks, B) Recently the first atomic clock wrist watch has been invented, and C) A cesium fountain atomic clock will neither gain nor lose a second in more than 60 million years. That’s A, B and C, and Steve we will start with you.

S: Ok, well the uh 56 atomic clocks huh? That certainly plausible.

P: 556 clocks

S: 556 separate atomic clocks. I guess, um, I don’t see why not. I guess they could do that to calibrate each other. So that’s plausible, I’ve just never heard about that. The atomic clock wrist watch. Now, I’ve seen advertisements for wrist watches which synchronize with atomic clocks.

P: Yes, you have.

S: Now, I assume that’s not what you’re referring to. You’re referring to where the watch itself is an atomic clock.

P: Should I give you this hint?

S: I’m going to assume that’s what you meant, and not that it synchronizes with an atomic clock. That I know exists. Just basically uses radio signals whatever to locate the nearest atomic clock and synchronizes with it. And the third one, well that’s about right. that’s about right, that’s what I recall, that it gains and loses a second in millions of years, that is the right order of magnitude, so I’m going to say that one is correct.

P 60 million years. Six Oh million years.

S: That’s about right. So I’m going to say that number 2 is fake.

P: Ok.

S: The wrist watch, the atomic wrist watch.

P: Alright. Evan?

E: It’s a good one, Perry. It’s a good one.

P: Thank you.

E: However, I, I don’t want to sound like a copycat, but my first thing I did in my mind was that number 2 was also the fake one. A wrist watch? Just don’t know, don’t know. Whereas the other two do seem like they have much more plausibility to them. I just don’t know if you can get something as small as a wrist watch to be atomic clock capable. So, um, yah, at the risk of being a copycat here –

P: So you’re going to say number 2?

E: I’ll go with Steve as well.

P: And, uh, Jay our guest. What do you have to say about this?

J: Well first of all, I’m not a guest.

S: He’s a semi-regular panel member, an irregular panel member.

E: Semi-annual.

J: I’m trying to get back into the podcast. Well I’ll tell you quickly what I think. First of all, I have absolutely no information about how many clocks they’d string together so that does sounds plausible to me. The second one, the atomic wrist watch, yet again I’m going to have to say that I don’t know how big an atomic clock has to be in order for it to be an atomic clock, and I don’t doubt that someone would try to come up with that. I really don’t know, so that one seems plausible to me. The third one is the one that I thought was a little farfetched, that 60 million years wouldn’t lose or gain one second, so I’m going to go with three.

P: Ok. So so far we have two Bs and a C. And finally Bob.

B: The first option, 556 atomic clocks to come up with the time. I can pretty much verify that that’s right. I’ve read about stuff like that, where they take clocks from all over the place and they synchronize them. I think I’ve read that in a book called Faster by James Gleek.

P: Ok.

B: The atomic clock wrist watch, that’s going to get my vote. That’s just too small. I don’t think, everyone I’ve seen or read about was a pretty hefty affair.

P: Ok.

B: Nothing tiny. It’s a lot of technology involved to do that, unless like Steve said you use radio technology to synchronize. And the 60 m years sounds right to me, so I’m gonna go with B the wrist watch.

P: Ok. So in the end we have three Bs and the only dissenter being Jay with his notable C.

S: His minority report.

P: Very good.

J: You could call me vanguard though too, you could say that.

P: We will start by saying that C, a cesium fountain atomic clock will neither gain nor lose a second in 60 million years is in fact true. So Jay I’m afraid you were incorrect.

E: The real question is who will be around 60 million years from now to tell us if that holds true.

P: That’s true, that’s true, we’re accepting this on the evidence given.

S: Well Bob will be of course.

E: Oh that’s right.

S: When he has his head frozen.

E: I thought it was frozen.

J: Come on guys, let’s face it, I’m the only one here that buys into cryonics.

P: That’s true.

E: We’ll have to deal with that in another episode.

S: That’s another episode, yes.

P: Moving right along. I will now tell you that A) the atomic clock at the US Naval Observatory is in fact 556 atomic clocks, is inaccurate.

E: It’s 555 clocks.

P: It is 56 clocks.

S: 56 clocks.

P: Not 556 clocks. There are 44 cesium and 12 Hydrogen Maser clocks. They are in fact strung together. The average of those clocks is used to come up with the official time, which the US Naval Observatory disseminates. The second one is the one, B) the one that three of you chose is the one that I thought would catch you, and I will admit I took a little bit of leeway with this. I am now, and I want this link everyone will be able to get to this on our webpage. If gentlemen you will look I just sent you the link to the atomic wrist watch and if you will please click on it.

S: Holy

P: And there it is.

E: Oh

P: As you can see it is in fact a little bit silly, as it is in fact a Hewlett Packard atomic clock. This guy is wearing it on his wrist, so it’s about the size of a VCR.

B: Actually, it’s more of a forearm watch.

P: Nonetheless, it is all the definitions of an atomic clock wrist watch, and so I in fact included it.

J: To describe it to the people who can’t see the picture.

S: It looks like a large PC, a desktop PC.

P: Yah, yah.

S: Strapped to this guy's forearm, basically.

B: And, it’s got a plug!

P: It has a battery, I checked. It had a battery that lasts for 45 minutes. And then you have to recharge it. So it’s a stretch.

S: You didn’t say it was practical.

P: I didn’t say it was practical, but it does fit the definition. And it thought it would catch you and in fact it did. It caught most of you. And the one that was false, I mean it was 56 and I made it 556, I made it a lot more.

S: It was conceptually right, it was just an order of magnitude more. Good job Perry.

P: I stumped you all.

E: Well done, well done.

P: Thank you very much

J: I feel hoodwinked so I’m not going to

E: I will be a little more wary of your Science or Fictions.

P: As well you should. As well you should.

S: It was Perry’s first time, so we’ll give him of leeway on that.

P: It was. Don’t forget my first question in that one that was C was true, and I’ve just proven that with my Science or Fiction.

E: Now… did they drop one of these on Hiroshima or Nagasaki?

B: That was a hydrogen watch.

E: Oh right of course, I’m sorry my mistake.

P: It’s actually highly interesting to read about the atomic clocks. The US Naval Observatory site, it’s actually “tycho.usno.navy.mil”, but like I said, we’ll get this link to the wrist watch so you can see it, I think it’s quite comical, on our webpage associated with this podcast. That’s it for Science or Fiction.

(37:55)

Government and Wacky Science (55:40)

S: The Skeptics' Guide to the Universe is a production of the New England Skeptical Society. For more information about this and other episodes, visit our website at www.theness.com. 'Theorem' is performed by Kineto and is used with permission.

References