SGU Episode 369

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SGU Episode 369
11th August 2012
(brief caption for the episode icon)
SGU 368                      SGU 370
Skeptical Rogues
S: Steven Novella
B: Bob Novella
R: Rebecca Watson
J: Jay Novella
E: Evan Bernstein
Quote of the Week
One of the peculiar sins of the twentieth century, which we've developed to a very high level, is the sin of credulity. It has been said that when human beings stop believing in God they believe in nothing. The truth is much worse: they believe in anything.
Malcolm Muggeridge
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Forum Discussion

Introduction

You're listening to the Skeptics' Guide to the Universe, your escape to reality.

S: Hello and welcome to the Skeptics' Guide to the Universe. Today is Wednesday, August 8 2012, and this is your host, Steven Novella. Joining me this week are Bob Novella...

B: Hey, everybody

S: Rebecca Watson...

R: Hello, everyone.

S: Jay Novella...

J: Yo.

S: And Evan Bernstein.

E: Hi, everyone.

(all greeting Evan)

This Day in Skepticism (0:27)

• August 11, 3114 BCE - In the Gregorian calendar was the universal creation date used by several pre-Columbian meso-American cultures like the Mayans. That is the start of the calendar that many dummies fear ends on December 20, 2012.

R: hey happy birthday to the universe

everything over 14 to cart send me

R: know exactly what they started well we know what day at several pre-columbian Mesoamerican cultures like the Mayans started keeping track of the date

S seriously 369 episodes guiding people skeptically to the universe and no card haha seriously remind

R: okay so August 11 3114 BC Ian Gregory in calendar that was the date when the MesoAmerican Long Count calendar began and it's probably most famous to the season 5 cast as the calendar that has everybody freaked out because they think it ends on December 20th, 2012. course it doesn't actually end in much the same way that your annual calendar ends at December 31st just picked up again the next day with a new calendar but a lot of people from assuming that the Mayans had somehow predicted that the entire universe would end. but that's the day it all started

Jameson 11 August 11 3114 BC alright yeah I'm pretty universal

J: did you know that you share a birthday with universe

R: birthday

J: crazy

E: I think happy birthday don't get sued

J: doesn't really get any more badass not thank you

R: happy birthday to you

E:

B: happy birthday Jay

J: I am I I'm 44 guys wow

S: that's a double death culture for right now

R: to die today.

E: Lucky don't sleep in a room at the fan running OK?

J: do for my birthday like what's up what's the surprise this year?

E: well

R: doing a podcast turns out

E: surprise happy hour right away

R: is your birthday present I think you should get to guess is on science fiction

S: OK. done.

ah really

J: sucks guys if I bail

B: awesome set up for an epic fail

S: sounds like a present but its really not because you had to guess wrong you're a loser

R: exactly

S:

News Items

Dino Mating (3:16)

The Daily Mail: The joy of T-Rex: Scientists show how dinosaurs had sex (tricky, when you weigh 30 tonnes and one crucial part is 12ft long)

J: I have something that will cheer me up from Rebecca hurting me on my birthday that is Rebecca I have a question for you.

R: OK.

J: how did 30-ton animals larger than say a four or five story building have sex?

R: very carefully

B: hahaha

J: example to illustrate what were getting at here. A mail to rent a Saurus Rex weight about 5 times in this email was even bigger. so add something a sore throat work much bigger than the dress or structures try it out there sleep tight just trying to figure out how they had sex with positions what they do it and well to to cook Dr sexy time they did it doggystyle.

B: got one question is having sex you gotta answer the question how big was it?

J: 12 feet long

B: for 12 feet long as

R: he probably said it was 13

J: Scientists believe that they did it doggy-style because of a few different things. one of them that they were observed add largest land based mammals and those those animals have sex from behind and after root buing them doing it there's reasons why they needed to do it down to it's the only way to take an adjuster body so they could actually mate.

S: I may lack imagination here but I'm not sure what the other option would be.

R: the other options doggy style or something

J: because I'm sure either way they were doing it in the doggy style position but there are some sites that believed that most if not all dinosaurs had to do in water to the smaller the small GRP tights big one had to do in water to get an assist in the figure this out

R: this is like basketball

J: Some scientists would observe crocodiles and crocodiles with user points each to get in position interview you might not know the crocodiles don't actually insert a penis; actually just drop seed so well I even still date each other is like kind of like it doggy style position going on. a date to see interesting point here that is called a oxbow lake ice tea to know about clickers

S: oh yeah

J: It's a primitive orifice use for urination, defecation, and calculations I was like we have yeah there is still a lot of sites that don't agree to know dat science jokes crazy scientist really want to get to the truth to the debate each other about it. but for the most part of the the consensus is that they did it doggy style and another interesting thing I found out was that it's very hard to determine the sex of dinosaurs for a couple of reasons: one because we can observe them so we don't have your other big thing is that we just have bones you don't have any soft tissue without socks tissue there's a lot of information that were missing only really take a look

S: or hard issue

J: you almost got me a message

E: there must be some difference in the skeletal structures of having three

S: if you know the female in the mail and then you could did you can find features I can tell you but if you're in traffic stinks the story on the skulls and how would you know the pelvis but the shoeman sushi or so big. not necessarily difference for a dinosaurs

J: Steve I did read it they found the differences in certain types of dinosaurs but but they really don't 100 percent say that it's fact because its case is your name I have like 12 global samples like okay sure to tell the differences but not big enough number to really say for a fact yeah there's definite difference here there's a lot of other things like correlate I told her I really don't have that much information to gain about about the eye dissection I think you is male and female here and there but just in a lot of data

S: yeah the one that was interesting. so that means all the largest dinosaur species had to live within walking distance of a large enough body of water to help to make

J: that's what they say

E: how much better with the respective was more land

S: there's lakes everywhere is true radiotion in the desert crazy for animals to migrate arches... imagine the great migration to the lake haha here's the pictures article our card price LASIK class

E: facial expressions they put put these human face when I said it did

J: it really makes the images look ridiculously funny. I recommend anyone that's listening to this go to art go to the skeptics guide Autoworks I click on the link to the show and look at these incredibly funny drawings that people came up with

B: or just google Dino porn you go right to it

S: does a good time to bring up the fact that we have started a skeptic's guide Instagram account

B:

S: on Instagram and how we will be have been for a couple of dozen posting pictures relevant to the show on Instagram. So you can to follow along with any images the reason for the show. Hans will have some dinero sex pictures on screen

B: black horse

R: and the states we broadcast in

Blowing Up Asteroids (9:02)

Phys.org: Armageddon looming? Bruce Willis couldn't save us from asteroid doom (Update)
YouTube: Map of Nuclear Explosions on the Earth from 1945-1998

S: Bob time you going to tell us why Bruce Willis would have failed to save the Earth from armageddon.

B: if you insist. Remember the movie Armageddon right? pretty cool movie

S: I tried to forget it but yeah

B: Bruce Willis I blow it up in preventing elee or extinction level event on earth but away since I'm a mixing movies on ideally that's deep impact. find any fish from the movie they let that she took a specific details from the movie Armageddon I need to turn something that you probably already knew: that is no damn way that we could blow it up and save the earth the way that it's done in the movie. but still need for you to stop at Pt physicist but I checked all the calculations and there correct and that of course is a lie but they are 4th year masters of physics students at Leicester University in a published two articles in the university someone tongue in cheek Journal of special Physics topics and I just love the name to the papers that came out to the one of my screen Bruce Willis save the world and the other one was Bruce Willis predict the end of the world. what did was a created a formula to determine the total amount of kinetic energy were the energy of motion needed to stay and asteroid specifically the extra in a movie to SD into to have both pieces miss the Earth cause I didn't really remember that but the people that were

S: yeah

B: in the movie that they are straight up into two pieces kind of just missed your tonight I think I kind of forgot about that but it's kind of mostly just blew up I didn't know that

S: sucks yeah I did David Booty the two big pieces when was really close to the earth think about to hit it to pieces went to either side, earth to you really didn't have to blow to my heart

B: OK I'll remember that

S: yeah W the highly unlikely Houston area they were going

B: so excited for the bottom line is essentially we don't have a bomb nearly big enough to do the job, in the movie. in fact the bomb would have to be a billion times bigger than the biggest bomb ever made. you choose to be huge. so what is up on you ask go ahead

S:

B: very good that did big Ivan Norris Orangethorpe on my phone but I'm not sure you pronounce it is still by the Soviet Union and detonated the day before Halloween in 1961. amazing head up high yield of 50 megaton, or 50 million tons of TNT and I didn't I didn't know that Steve did you know this designed to be a hundred megatons but they purposely gimped for two reasons the first one is at da to reduce a nuclear fallout between have been extensive. if this thing went off and it would have literally spewed a more radio radiation into the atmosphere like 25 percent of the total atmosphere that ever gonna leave in the aperture October 25 percent off 50 50

J: so why would that why would doubling it make it to make such a difference?

B: a day made it very fishy and see for a biotic the line piece of a good lead that accident told me that cut the yield in half. But the other interesting thing that they did get a reason why didn't do what you said you would actually did have destroyed to drop the truck is dropped a hundred version the plane but actually Penn State a rise in the yard pilot I don't think that would have been very happy they were going to go on a suicide mission. So two very good reasons why they had to do that but that's it actually could very easy to make. the atmosphere that you're just a created the disturbance atmosphere is this disturbance actually orbit the Earth 3 times You staying down to caused any problems but still it lasted three orbits to the earth and I found a really

J: out of service I go weather

B: well kind of meeting going into the tracked it on three times. Somebody went to the ground zero described it as the ground surface of the island has been leveled, swept and licked so that it looks like a skating rink. it was like almost perfectly smooth e they couldn't believe it. is I just sing into a little bit context, Hiroshima bomb in about 15 2013 teach me that look like look like a total firecracker is the point obviously point that was said Armageddon asteroid would laugh at Ivan add it into did did you determine that you would need eight hundred trillion terajoules or yeah I hate 11800 yottajoules. case we can you use that word tons and tons of energy for the live in the produce 416,000 terajoules um is tiny amount it's not nearly enough that I could have 52 so what's to be with me not to get on but we would need a petaton nuclear weapon and if you really want to crack is asteroid to help. Wikipedia great quote describing what a petaton bondage they said that it did you see restricted to astronomical events such as meteor impacts were large science fiction weapons.

E: ban Yeah

S: Yeah right

B: um actually actually no. but does not a bad guess I'll tell you about a magnitude 12 earthquake, which is because a 12 yr quick as impossible in New York is no fault in a big enough to create anything more than a 10 to 12 just like a redneck would be immense. ah another a another comparison would be a 60-kilometer meteorite hitting the Earth at 25 kilometers per second. I shoot you too much kinetic energy in here and um another way to say it would be about five thousand times more energetic than the meteorite that that wiped out the dinosaurs. so just a huge huge as you can imagine I noticed it would create a crater create a creator bigger than United States. 5000 5000 miles wide and of course, all life would be wiped out it except maybe bacteria, but I suspect it even they would be I complete on the way. I just thinking tire services near the beach I know when we don't use the first

S: nuclear explosion of you guys see the YouTube videos look at which is a map of nuclear explosions on Earth from 1945 yeah that was cool where on the receipt ocean current which country was responsible for 1650

J: you surprised by what you saw house for the

S: how many nuclear explosions phones been stolen the earth in last 50 years.

B: has a lot

S: the US is over a thousand nuclear weapons

B: to a lot

S: have to link to that on the show notes

B: that big for quite a while I thought I was thinking I would if we magically happen right now been here since you're the bomb it wouldn't matter, because it turns out it is asteroid if you're going to get a really want to blow this thing up this asteroid would have to be split ironically at the moment or technology would allow was to detect it so the moment What are best telescope to determine a disaster even existed we have to blow it up break it in there otherwise it would be too close.

J: Bob, this is like a horrible news item

S: this is not the way that we would deflect

B: no I know this is not the way to do it. is so many other way to my favorites TIA gravity tractor I did we park at the station nearby and have a full kind of changes. but again you have to take the sting very soon and get there very fast if you want to do it takes a lot of time and, as usual, the movie was far far off, but still you know, what

S: effect does purge a medical fact yes not scientific accuracy.

Punching for God (17:20)

Huffington Post: Todd Bentley Controversy: British MP wants to ban preacher from United Kingdom for kicking people

S: Evan tell us about the preacher who punches people for got

me wet No way over

E: this is the one of those things that you really don't believe it when you first hear it like it has to be a pun onion came up with it or it'll parody you're lost. this is real. so meet pastor Todd Bentley of the fresh fire ministries of Florida to meet at like Hello army doesn't NBA team I'm about to give you a chance to meet and ET okay age 36 about 6'4", 325 pound, a former Hells Angel, thats a biker gang sexually assaulted age 15 discovered fundamental Christianity at age 18 and eclipse with healed doesn't the people of their deadly diseases in serious injuries by doing things like Oh kicking them in the face and punching them in their areas and kneeing them in their absence.

S: search rated is

E: he preachers in a revivalist style getting up for very large audiences what is a concert in Canadia don't blame us for this week yeah well you're 40 right is Canadian so this share him with other parts the world.

J: actually like he he hates people

E: yeah well here let me let me let me tell you about it and I'll get to the Google come back to the point in just a minute because I said so really

E: because you I will thing about Todd Bentley is he likes tell stories lots of stories. I mean he comes up a story to make the Bible look like scientific journal. that that's the kind of stories he tells the story but these revival said he organized and still doesn't know where is large as 10,000 people at a time true believers packages 10 to the time to see his first 5 weeks of transmitting show via a million viewers in 2008 you preach live to audiences totally over 400,000 people so this person has influence and reach. He had to leave for a while after ABC didn't expose on him and he kinda had to retreat to the shadows Shelly stay for a little while. and he's going back on a tour and ice trying to do I bring her to the United Kingdom. his method is called holy inspiration and dad kicking in Eagan for this reason many people in the United Kingdom are pressuring their leaders to ban his intended visit to their country later this month. and uh member parliament nothing lyrics official erase issue or problem see if I keep him out of doing his schtick over in the United Kingdom

J: get to the brass tacks really like people and they're getting hurt

E: well let me play you a quote Jay from him directly this is this is Sandra Kerr want to hear it from his own OK? so here we go

I want you to pumpkin in the sternum is hard as you can in a broken sternum long story short answer the broken sternum a healed the ribs were healed instantly instantly with the punch?

R: holy shit that guy should be in jail for that he's actually listening to say to

R: someone in a broken sternum hurt him of cancer

B: instantly

E: that's his claim that is

J: a broken bone that he has to punch to kill you?

R: yeah it's true what is the answer to the sternum and if you did never broken sternum William has cancer cured?

E: look now you question the power of God I don't know that's really wise place to turn a guy

J: yeah

E: well it looks like a plan is the user stories of his. I could not find anything to correlate corroborated stories geez not really exaggerated

S: videos in punching people

E: there is video of him making contact with people, Steve, kicking them and you know what could be called what is in such of light Manor real that you barely need to touch these people who are in the throes of gyrations of the healing power of the Lord up on stage of people are really physically gyrating themselves that whole shaking occurrence that happens a lot of times with these pictures to get them all with the frenzy a hand on your forehead like to see top of another stupid kind of push them over to you give you a little poke in the eye in the rich Hil Hil kick your shins there something wrong with your leg you know if its a little tiny tap. I train martial art I know what it's like to be punch in the head and stomach it he's. from the evidence I've seen he's not really hurting people at all the steps.

J: but it sounded totally ridiculous the whole thing is ridiculous.

E Jay, got to play this for free because it is too good a little sample of what his treatment show me have to cause after like with the term sounds like. your ears one example of him treating a one of his uh you know which purse.

E: What is the weekend in the air at the person is not a full making contact with his hand healing hand of Christ in their way

S: to steal it from the chef

J: central

R emerald

S: walking Saturday Night Live skit is a Hells Angel with a tattoos who punch people is part of the healing no service

E: guys gets better because in December 2011, he told me he had a hand in bringing 33 people back from the dead

R:

E: 20 of the cases where he's cleaned medically verified. so you gonna stay with time to try to put this in its proper context. this guy is such a big talker and he's so so deep in his own feces when it comes to all this that's that's primarily what is he is all he's a show pony and nothing else best.

R: you're right Steve that was fun

S: video of him doing his service in your area everything is it is just to show me that he's a comedian in his way you talk to me did we tell stories for little heel in there. showman ship

E: showmanship

Quickie with Bob: Curiosity Update (24:30)

YouTube: Curiosity's Descent

S: Well, before we go on with our last news item, I want a quickie

B: wow so soon?

R: out in a while

J: yeah well

B: hahahaha

E: like a dinosaur oh ok just relax and calm now why

B: you tell me. this is your quickie with Bob and take a seat haha. I have to of course give a quick update about the newest denizen of Mars Curiosity rover.

J: yeah baby

B: oh my god I was I was so happy I was so happy that things didn't crash after the surface you know I trust NASA tape on your brilliant a fantastic job search is untested I tried to raise so complicated; so many different things going on even if I was really I was really nervous and not as nervous I'm sure there to pursue happy about this. is just an amazing showcase of Technology hard work and other and a little luck of course super curiosity the next couple of years 30 years it will you lose its luster of scientific calculator to determine things like Mars ever had conditions to the suitable for microbial life. It'll heading for Mount sharp cheese to have a have had a very watery past the bottom parts of the mountain could but they determine dot com space images I did it pass is lots of water down there. weeks not doing wheelies but I just hanging out while we go to a battery of diagnostic tests so that we can give it a clean bill of health and it so far everything looks good. and it will also and has already been sending a very cool pictures of its local environment me to go to the next sighting chicken out in the Russell and lots of other site. so I just wanted to say congratulations national you guys totally kicked some butt. and your quickie with Bob; I hope it was good for you too.

S: did you see the video of the descent?

B: I was I was disappointed with that video.

S: I made a status like

E: 7 camera

R: HD delay

E: Al Michaels there calling the shots

B: when I kept playing with us with the helmet with a help me camron and a camera. should had two probes wanted to film it and want to actually do it

J: billion dollars over there today to put in another hundred million dollar camera right?

B: not asking to see the whole 7 minutes of terror going to be great. I know its a realistic but uh but it doesn't matter I can imagine it.

S: you can see the heat shield away and then you see that sending that to the service and then know when the retros k can you get out of school

J: it was awesome

S: BBC curiosity project site is Jon Gruden ger made this comment he said "you would be forgiven for thinking it was trying to pull a fast one we actually put a rover out on the hobby desert a picture to Los Angeles not coming in there

B: uh boy

S: really really

B: really said that was ok smart Oaks how many

S: on the fact that the landscape to look like to know. but you really have to put it that way?

B: God I did not say flu

S: probably chose in words

J: yeah I want to heat of the moment you know I guess I can forgive me for a does realize that every skeptic in the roads close your eyes out of that pit

B: but you know if you think about it, he's really a change in the mines what he said you believe in you you're going to be rational you can't believe it and you don't believe it a little bit of extra one of your back quote is you know

S: if you could express to bed without the evoking is the specter of a NASA conspiracy given the history probably

J: idiots like Joe Rogan out there that are going to turn that into something

S: why would he say that contain a message ?

Occ the Skeptical Caveman (28:43)

KickStarter: Occ the skeptical caveman - A new webseries

S: Jay Scott Hoch schedule cave man who is this character?

J: ah okay man is the pilot episode of a web series that we recently launched a Kickstarter for. So right now we definitely have the original premises in a can of soda and you we're writing feverishly writing the next 4 episodes in the hopes of going to get funded particularly excited about this web series for a number of reasons. one we did find a way to infuse schedule message schedule information in that but now we can we came up with a skeptical met any to tribe full of morons and he's trying to survive just trying to be honest to visit elect while surviving. and it's your turn to find its Rachel just shoot

S: we really want to break in to video production more. me jasons number videos in 2000 s in over the hunters haha and no man. and making videos is 10 times more difficult than making doing audio more to produce a 5-6 minutes skit for YouTube takes a month with a lot of equipment a lot of people. over the years we have to put together a crew of actors and technical people, people going to do all the different aspects of the filming in the lighting Center. on so we have the people we have pretty writing team together George Hrab joined a writing team and we just need your support you need to find the video productions. and more than that me we have a goal for the Kickstarter campaign to 17,000 but that's enough to know that we need to do this web series, but if we could fully funded send a msg Video Productions can do a lot more as well a lot of other video ideas as well; I've written a number of episodes for more of a skeptical lecture series that I'd like to do for youtube take you to be a really great venue for outreach year old I bring more people into the schedule a movement. email still every week from people who say that — I think about is you listen to the show what did you have any other didn't know the schedule even existed to you stumbled upon us on iTunes or maybe even started listening to was skeptical and then eventually was the won over to do is skeptical worldview. we get emails with those stories every week. the podcast has been great skeptical average but we need to break into other venues to try to keep growing keep growing our moving our mission is to make the world more critical thinking types of the literate and skeptical place. and we absolutely need the support of our listeners to do that. there are multiple organization arrayed against us on every topic you can imagine that are ridiculously will find it. mean your discoveries to is promoting creases in a row decides to cation have millions of dollars. anti-vaccine movement has millions of dollars. everything is it everytime we talk about there is a well-funded moving out there trying to show the grade science or oppose signs were promoted nonsent and we have a small victories and effective with small skeptical mean that's usually underfunded any me up we operate completely shoestring budget trying to fight all of these well-funded organizations. so on you every now and then we don't be don't do it very often but every now and then we absolutely need to ask you to support will be do so that we can keep getting the message out there.

J: wanted to talk a little bit more about why we chose video and why we think it really effective region part of it is on YouTube you sure if you two been waiting really can't surf podcast JC a two minute or 30 second or five minute clip on YouTube every time you click to a video you see a new list video show up in the right hand column. and you do that thing we just play a series of videos in your random lease kind of randomly getting to next videos every time you click that right bar changes and we're hoping that people find our videos that way in Oct and obviously Other things too to advertise the video and get more people to see it but they Steve saying no hard reset we do to kind of activity we do here at the Skeptics Guide is try to educate people try to entertain them at the same time and the fact is that we want to continue running our audience point; we want to just be preaching to the choir to bring in new people want those people teach their kids and your hopefully this weekend we can make a difference so that's why the YouTube video ideas is an imperative for us now that your next level of outreach you want to move to. this is just the beginning we have a lot of plans I'll a lot of fantastic ideas we want to work on but do you really want to make this happen.

S: the truth is the sad truth is it really hard to break into mainstream TV or cable whatever with a hardcore skeptical message for lack of trying really hard to get to the top restaurants in a producers they want to do things are tried and true; they don't want to take a risk its something new like a skeptically themed show. still working on that unfortunately just not coming to fruition. mean time to produce our own videos take advantage of the Internet in a medium that we have to get the message out to expand movement to educate skeptics and make the world more critical place. Kickstarter campaign that works we can start it works is you reset the minimum we need to do the project and if we meet that minimum then we get to do the project. needs to be don't make the minimum unfortunate anything at all. you really need your support during during this campaign. 3 weeks left hi to each goal. to SD guess that we give for the thank you for each level of donation and how we recently added a new thank you to our donors. for those who pledge $25 for either have up to this point where do from this point forward you will be entered into a raffle in the opportunity to win one of three thank you say you get to choose. 5 people will be selected from among those who do the $25 more. one of those people to choose between either a guest rogue on the issue yet to come on the show for the whole show before really well suited to be a stroke or you could choose a VIP special guest of the issue at next year's NECSS New York City you can choose episode you need character definitely have line and hang out with me shootin episodes. remaining four wheelers receive the 16 gigabyte thumb drive with a cast videos gag reels. go to Kickstarter.com we'll have the full link in the show take a look at our campaign

J: All have to do is type in OCC

Who's That Noisy? (36:42)

• Answer to last week: Vegetable Clarinet

E: Thanks Steve Dr Steve sandmeyer call you talked to you in forever since

S: no one has ever called Dr Valley here we go to say last weeks

E: oh yeah Thelonious Monk never sounded

S: so that was kind of instrument was it off as

E: instruments which is clarinet a special kind of clarinet. this clarinet was carved from a cucumber and then a pepper red pepper and cayenne peppers and green peppers ready since there are

E: know exactly how to carve a hollow at the center you put in the better term. you know what angle certain things need to be and how is your car your lifetime kinds of the carvings there evil to fact our entire symphonies consisting of special I'm on YouTube clarinet charter.net an amazing just go ahead and take a look at a lot of stuff to finish

E: first person to get worse from Malmo Sweden to exit was a a clarinet

J: I didn't know that you just know that

E: I don't know Grand Forks Herald I don't know

J: I really impressed someone should I go Yes thats a a cucumber

E: Richard and I exchanged emails this because I want to inform him that and he was so excited to try to get these things for years now. S; well done congratulations.

S:

E: OK here we go voice you may or may not be familiar with

this device to collect urine during the flight that really work very well 0 gravity bud really good or very well on your mind your back for you feed a failure on the

J: I'm fascinated your work with when where to do with cable to try to uh play next

E: info at the skeptics guide done working is our email address so immature answering you for a min com hour to go ahead send an email

Questions and Emails

Kinesio Tape (40:20)

S: this week; this one comes from a listener called Andrew and Andrew writes:

Hi guys, Watching the London Olympics on TV I noticed many athletes, particularly swimmers and divers wearing what looked like some kind of band-aid. After a few minutes on Google I found that it is called "Kinesio tape". It seems it was invented "In the mid-1970s, Dr. Kenzo Kase was already a well-known Japanese practitioner licensed in chiropractic and acupuncture." It supposedly "Re-educate the neuromuscular system Reduce pain Optimize performance Prevent injury Promote improved circulation and healing" kinesiotaping.com. Seems like mostly woo to me...how much of modern sports medicine is science based? Perhaps this could be a topic for discussion. Keep up the good work!

S: you guys watching the Olympics

B: I wish I could use where to buy 100 hot-cold I think that you could say you could put on warmer peace sign um I got anything to get an injured suppose it is okay now

B: I'm not going to watch the Olympics for years after this

S: lot of divers group of color take going to support the pattern on their back girl on your legs.

E: Meridian Pointe

S: it's supposed to do as opposed to improve performance reduce injury or help you or help in injury by supporting the muscles were proving the function of the muscles in your celebrity and waiting explanation how it's supposed to work um sorry about it forward air on line blog Swift and do I look up anything published about it and of course there is not much I'm having some studies actually looking at Kinesio Taping 40 years

E: we haven't seen much of it till this Olympics

S: actually salmon skeptic read about this exact topic two years ago yeah Usher

E: I've yet to see what I don't know I may have a blind eye to seeing at the Olympics

R: last time they were a bit more covered because it is the Winter Olympics yeah I saw it in Beijing and talk about it on Skepchick as well

S: the night has been in the past definitely seeing it more minutes going to like a

J: really dirty it's more extreme with their claims are all the different variations of it. find interesting about it is that really do feel that they're getting a benefit from a very strong placebo effect

S: I don't know about that affect is the second is the literature in its not much but there has been a few studies in a couple reviews of those studies. to review return 2012 concluded that it was little quality evidence to support the use of can you take over other types of elastic a pink in the management or prevention of sports injuries. on a rolling pretty straight razor motion sensor injured cohorts where and force send Sarah compatibility for the studies are needed to confirm these findings. So essentially the good study today so it showed no difference for Noah Factor. judges we just to find a very common scam in any interest let it go I devices like magnets or whatever often wrapped in some kind of bandage and essentially you get some benefit over wrapping an injured muscle; does a little supported bait reduce pain need help keep the muscles warming heat content relaxed must suck to shoot. people are reinventing the east and over and over again but putting some pseudo science in there in selling it for a lot more money but if I could get all the benefits text from any basic supporting tape or bandage or whatever so different with study shows that yep it's not different than any other bandage tape. show on Thursday in the form of the basic physiological studies rather than the performance studies are the clinical studies whatever reason but the one that I wasn't she said yes it does have a second must return to tell if its beneficial retrieving harshly could even say that wasn't part of 22 muscle performance. so there's no reason to think that it's any different to sleep then on any other tape hi and the elaborate did you know it in really hyped claims are being made for it or not justified by anything in basic science research guys been doing this for 40 years and has it been able to put together one piece study? yes you know you're going through with this is elaborate message that is based on nothing you know the perfect age comes up whenever you talk about any sports pseudoscience you know we're there so many things I could talk but the Power Balance bands; the little nose strips don't help either you know that can you see a taping; of sleep date of course psychological studies show that the superfecta formance just eat a conference with direction does does help that's what I was talking about but I don't know that has an effect when you were talking about the peak performance of the World competition people pushing up so much again for mince that there really isn't much room left for something people sex to have a significant effect I'm just saying that the athletes feel like there's no sex a psychologically think that there's a benefit even know there is a will there is it doesn't actually get a real benefit in performance because it because we believe that there is one that sings I don't think is true justice for professional athletes get it together soon little room for variance in a person you wouldn't be competing in the Olympics 50 if you can have it a significant change in your presence because of something like that um that doesn't make a difference like you couldn't factory latest hot hands for nomming on Michigan is the consensus is there some controversy expenses that it doesn't really exist. show for professional basketball players having made warmest previous baskets doesn't seem to affect their abilities the chance to make the next basket doesn't appear to be any measurable psychological effect any to see the doctor performing follows pure statistical chance Yeah I think that's the same reason

J: what is a hot hands exy visitors

S: Street Addison whatever hitting baseballs are you were shooting baskets or whatever that you thinking is that would you make a basket to be more confident you'll make a higher chance of you miss a basket Guild field goal your your confidence in a greater chance of missing the next one today best places will tend to make baskets in a row would be on a on a cold streak with you in like this text just date to the finish line psychological exclamation doesn't exist. I would just be. to meet same as saying that it is a placebo effect wearing a rubber band or nope I'm not maybe four season average amateur athlete or maybe in a measurable psychological fact I don't think you're competing in the Olympics are going to have any going to be on that medal stand because if it is fake strips of tape in the back.

Name That Logical Fallacy (48:37)

S: well we do have a name that logical fallacy this week. hi this is a letter, an email that was sent to me by a gale Wallenberg and Kel writes

Sir, In reading your comments on iridology, I noticed a lot of biased opinions. I have to ask "why does modern medicine concentrate their efforts on treating the symtoms rather than treating the root cause?" I have also noticed that during my lifetime. there seems to be a very high mortality rate from misdiagnosed diseases by those claiming to be using the best diagnosis machines available. Modern medicine is not science based at all but rather based on greed for money. That is why modern medicine practitioners make such fraudulent claims against alternative medicine. If you would not receive any monetary compensation for what you do as an MD would you still be doing it? Best regards, Gale Wollenberg

S: in order to questionable to logic in there in and out of you guys

E: I have noticed during my lifetime to be very high mortality rate is used yeah she's using your own example gracias basing it on but she is witness not actually on what the actual statistics are

S: so that's a total and its subject to massive confirmation bias. what is a test on just your casual out to make sure to how much vacation of medical treatment is she talking about here. just her personal friends and family right KC but she has a high emotional stake and Shake happening today in on my way to kill the anecdote she doesn't say any sources respond to her neck she tells her to reply to all the things she said logical fallacies. didn't really do anything that I said but theaters the appeal to strip personal experience over data

R: Fisher said she's a she the way I am really maybe not the tailor is coming and Rogers TV right now

B: I love you doctors only treat symptoms is there a call the bullshit fallacy.

S: that you're right that's BS propaganda, but what was she a specific style seen that sentence with what is it? "I have to ask why does modern medicine country to country the symptoms present remember cause she's making a promise to be good

S: she's begging the question

haha yeah yeah

S: I know you have to ask if modern medicine focuses too much effort on treating the symptoms to me that's the case to Jesse y sin assuming you're begging the question will do they does that actually true of modern medicine. is this is this a standard piece of it a sin medicine approval tree propaganda modern family tree two covers up symptoms really what's that. face to face medicine is was discovered all the actual causes of diseases in ailments party signs we know what causes ironic that the one hand the keys to the medicine of the reductionist which means that we treat actual mechanisms of causes of diseases in with any excuses of not doing that in the only treating symptoms first made up it'll based upon nothing. Of course we look for the underlying cause of illness in treated when we can identify a pic of you in appropriately denigrating Connecticut I mean what to say if you have pain you to want me to treat pain world star CEO or whatever?

E: be saying that if you if you do treat the root cause supposed to the sentencing you're putting yourself at work eventually you'll get your stuff in it

S: which is not a big deal question

B: I'd love to have her or him go to the doctor with a migraine and you say Well symptom but you know I don't think you'd like that we can't really treat because so deal with it

S: yet but we can manage them then we can see if you can get taking Micronor in bacon have very few retorno migraines free verse of the problem or the street use a little. also name me a cam practitioner to treat root root cause is not me to

J: Yeah but Steve People like their eyes pseudo-scientific practitioners better than your doctors medical doctors

S: note does the true Dida

J: is the day feel better about those methodologies because they think there's a scam involved in to modern medicine

S: OK so here's modern medicine is outside weather is FaceTime free for money so good call dad s really want to get paid for their services the real Mitt of the real they're making millions of dollars.

S: false assumptions about running shoes that are motivations the way I text you when there's any possibility to whatsoever Iridologist can I get to realize every way you take a lunch meeting with your dog is a cold you probably hear you're going to head to bility Steve will be doing this if you weren't a bow

S: 10 years of schooling dollars you

B: people that love your job so much schedule we do for

B: money what are you talking about?

S: anybody either donating your time.

Science or Fiction (56:31)

S: Each week I come up with three science news items or facts, two genuine and one fictitious, and I challenge my panel of skeptics to sniff out the fake. Now we have a special theme this week and 4 items. I hope this email emoji word origins of words and the explanation for their origin you tell me which one is not correct

J: awesome steve

S: OK? here we go. Item number one: is claptrap a trick used to "catch" applause from the audience. Word number two: is bogus a machine used to make counterfeit bills or coins. Word three: is straw man - Refers to men who stood outside courthouses with a straw in their shoe in order to indicate their willingness to be a false witness. And word four: is nuts - from "nuts", the same word, meaning a source of pleasure.

J: fake?

S: it easy correct Jay first and you get to pick two as the fake.

E: wow

J: foursome I am I still getting a 53

S: I know that that's why I agree to it

E: happy birthday 44

J: to trap a trick to use to catch applies for the audience Kaching Kaching

S: yeah exactly. to trap claps Rick o'clock traffic

J: I'm not liking this one. it's a trick use to chip in tights people to do plus size shirt does a sign at the turn of the Flies way back for that strict Buddhism she used to be counterfeit bills coins; I believe this one is correct because the word bogie I know that I know that I have something in the back of my mind is telling me yes to that one that's strong man stron shoes do you think that was true. nuts meaning of sources laser seriously. this one has to be true because you would just make up the source a pleasure skeptical podcast.

S: that's correct

J: take the first one clap trap is fake Cinemagic

R: nuts what you mean to me crazy crazy and hang a regionally come

S: theme to this forward

R: yeah thats legit ah OK my other question is: do you mean did these are potential ly Annamalai geez or definitive because because with a lot of words there yet question as to whether or not he knows its the focus of mileage ear you know

S: these are the current best guess or consensus is it is more than maybe like very likely to be true but they're not just a guess or a folk explanation.

R: of the one that's wrong though is that one to you made up out of state calls or is that one that has been gas station folk thing

S: let me say that the one that's wrong is demonstrably wrong

R: demonstrably wrong

S: it's definitely not the origin of the word that does it mean that the definitely is not correct

R: leads me to believe its not made up at the post office is something that has Jess is so I'm going to go with my gut on this. and I will say that but it is cracked rib that makes sense Pago I could move into the idea of it being crap as a cheap trick; on the plane ticket cause fever to cheap to science does dish bogus yeah I can believe that says Richard to me she needed for it Richard to finish eating please Allah and nuts Nina source of pleasures I wish I could see a package on the transition into now I know its crazy from something that Sam Ash in it makes you getting a be something that makes you lose your mind. so everything is just straw man which I do not believe I don't think that is I don't think that it refers to Men's Warehouse strong issue however I do think that that has been a suggested origin I'm going to go down

S: OK. Bob?

B: man um yeah happy I get a second season two to force people to clap like maybe because you even start it take to make it to clap now yeah so I can see that. bogus I have no idea sounds right those. straws sure man I don't know something about strong the shoes to fill with something but who knows what they want to just jumps out at me is nuts. I keep thinking about the famous reply to you no surrender knots doesn't seem to coincide with the wind has to be stressed I mean it doesn't like I meant propylene to be probably am totally wrong but I'm just going to 6 a.m.

S: OK. Evan?

E: yeah um go clap trap kieres trick. bogus bogus is correct because I made a reference to bogus when was talking about money in the context of food there correct pull up their instruments from an extra minutes um. I seem to remember something about the straw man story that would be correct restaurants thinking along the same lobbyist hang out sensors Anneliese nuts with Bob is the action yes NJ to visit

R: am I stand alone again?

S: you are. the one that nobody shows she's focused the machine used to make counterfeit bills worth points is that one is... science

B: hey

S: have you spoken to study was no 720 did leaders refer to the the money or the street corner counterfeit money itself and then be a broad anything but eventually I'll referred to the counterfeiters apparatus um from 1833 when she dies on a coin with the number of guys a great tools think the papers freeze corn chowder making in only large wagon load condition by the Attorney General . so yeah that's and Jared 11 thought that might have been the trick you to catch applause from the audience and that one is... science.

B: 50 50 50

S: really weird claptrap really that's the word but yeah its weird yeah just a yes or extended exactly right the descent cheaper showy languages name that tune on center rubbish that . was originally a stage turn back into 17 1730 and then its use in the nonsense or a cheap show me languages reference on an 1819 later. all right

E: all right here we go

S: so I get to go to Nashua strong man refers to shoot to be false witness. Rebecca think this one is the fiction this one is science and this one is... fiction

B: nice night

S: you are exactly right; that is a folk etymology straw man, but it is demonstrably in correcting people did not showing their shoes indicated they were willing to be a false give away that they were willing to be a false witness in town about the ATL points but didn't see a strong isn't completely known but its use as ZZZ logical fallacy of setting up a easy target logical fallacy strong man is essentially arguing against a weak version of your opponent position that you invent specific you invent specifically to knock down. Now there are some obvious sources for the notion of a strong man in the military training for example txt had little strong men that you would try to knock down

R: Skyrim

S: yes yes for a few could you for tooth scarecrow hey just destroy itself, I was reading, was something that was iconically cheap in worthless use straws to leftover it everywhere which was not a man of straw that would be very weak or worthless. I came across some straws well I was looking that up and that's similar to that specific to the original you guys nobody rich reference was you catching up grasping at straws show only catch is stronger than Katrina now grasping at straws originally probably a specifically referring to a drowning man

floating in the water anything the only thing I have to grab onto. by the way do you guys know the British term trash run in a maze ing the keys for the time in the UK to come

to think of a dirty things

Mountie old

S: is Sally

S: it is Sally is a doll that is some you like to go to for the dolls in the playground in the fairgrounds to be there soon its something you set up specifically say you can knockdown

B: oh sweet

S: which means that nuts from the pleasure is science and the other the specific message to rate for you were pretty much on there as well to regional email to eat any stores radio resource in pleasure in the 1600s. later references to be nuts about something or nuts upon something to be very fond of that thing that gives you pleasure and that morphed to be crazy about something and then just be crazy. shush schedule a shin dad to 5515 not maybe for to head that the metaphor of a nut in head may have influenced "nuts" themes for something to be crazy for it but that's a speculation not necessary.

B: I'm really mad at Stephen King play TV I wrote a Novell a a short story called let that be your last battlefield is really cool and he you said nothing quote from the world were to India I can't do you said that's when I was like what the hell does that mean I'm looking it up years ago and that's why I was so its too much to type of my mind if I never read that damn story be able to put a picture on at

R: you're blaming Stephen King

B: yeah somebody

S: shortened version of the expression nuts to you just nuts which animals are reading about that is falling out of favor because of the connection to another slang sense of the word that's what I see you place right?

E: right

S: now good job Rebecca, you totally nailed it this week.

R: Well yeah you finally picked a scene that falls in my Perry

E: 9.9 for Ukrainian judge

B: next season kind of next week of quantum mechanics

S: got it

B: Thank You

J: birthday you could pick something that I know

R: 50 percent chance of winning this time Jay

J: really I'm cursed this year I can't

S: speak out of your control you can show interest

Skeptical Quote of the Week (1:10:52)

S: quote for us on your birthday?

J: I have a quote

E: add know

J: play as the quote sent in by listener name Katelyn read from Tasmania, Australia. anybody to live in a place called Tasmania thats cool The quote is:

One of the peculiar sins of the twentieth century, which we've developed to a very high level, is the sin of credulity. It has been said that when human beings stop believing in God they believe in nothing. The truth is much worse: they believe in anything.

J: Malcolm Muggeridge!

B: I like that name

S: is a creek Dooley or Creek Julie D

R: Julie Julie D movie

E: we pronounce a creek Julie usually but is it crazy to see

E: it is huh a gf that word

R: definitely credulity

J: or I could you lead is Margaret

E: I use a wizard Harry Potter

J: English to your list author media personality and say it to wrist

S: Marion Marion Webster pronunciation guide says pretty lady

B: whoa

E: whoa.

we can go to

B: I think you should take away Rebecca's win that

E: I agree now you're here

R: I'm a writer I can say words however I want

E: this never have even leave the house

S: just how Steve can make a bone doctor

S: yeah okay to the room was really surprised that was imprimatur

B: yeah yeah

reminder for people that wear her to my way imprimatur temperature that's actually correct

E: uh we just passed you guys

S: Jay and happy birthday

J: thanks as a birthday 3435

S: through a lot of birthdays in Stanley Kubrick movies

J: was that

S: at all transformations thing I could get a chance Hylton

R:

E: time is always in a gallon

S: yes

E: days a week in 1992 time to time

E: Tuesday

S: Tuesday yeah widget deliver the TV show

E: reference

Announcements

Dragon*Con Private Recording (1:13:36)

S: well Rebecca how we doing on our a dragon*con tractor recording

R: we do have a few tickets left there to search gone as of this recording so that means that as the times can a reserve might be a couple so please if you want to come, get it at Reagan con it's Sunday night it's good time private party not like a public show Because it recording week at least you get to see how an actual episode comes together, which is very different from a public finance Yahoo messager time do you go in schedule robot.com

New T-shirt Available (1:14:16)

or about.com return after we have a brand new t-shirt available at BSG you fighting space dinosaurs

E: yeah

S: this is my favorite t-shirt diesel gas university SGU big letters into

R: a lot of compliments on on when I wear in town ah thanks to Chloe Ashton, our our artiste for creating that.

Star Party at Dragon*Con (1:14:45)

R: speaking of Dragon Con I wanted to also mention that my friend Maria Waters is once again holding the star party, which is big ger than they do Thursday night before Dragon*Con in Atlanta add to benefit the at the TV and the infamous Society am in memory of Jesse Metcalfe, an awesome astronomer passed away two years ago. so you can go get to get to Atlanta skeptic.com / star party and so please be there Nicole ugly cheese Marion call and George Hrab truck

S: thanks for joining me this week everyone

R: thank you steve

E: Dr

S: And until next week this is your Skeptics' Guide to the Universe

J: It's my birthday.