SGU Episode 367

This episode needs: transcription, formatting, links, 'Today I Learned' list, categories, segment redirects. Please help out by contributing!

How to Contribute

SGU Episode 367
28th July 2012
(brief caption for the episode icon)
SGU 366                      SGU 368
Skeptical Rogues
S: Steven Novella
B: Bob Novella
R: Rebecca Watson
J: Jay Novella
E: Evan Bernstein
Quote of the Week
Homeopaths do not have a physical brain, but merely 'skull water' with the memory of brains.
Robin Ince
Links
Download Podcast
SGU Podcast archive
Forum Discussion

Introduction

You're listening to the Skeptics' Guide to the Universe, your escape to reality.

Guide to the universe today is Wednesday July 25th 2012 everybody watches hello everyone Jana hey guys and Bernstein hi ho hi ho Kermit the Frog seeing that d20 game

This Day in Skepticism (0:44)

• July 28, 1996: The remains of Kennewick Man was discovered

alright are Beck a porn about today yeah tell you what's important about today what you doing today is that this is the anniversary of July 28th anniversary the discovery of Kennewick Man 2396 Bieber means of man found in Washington State and people probably best snow can a man do to the controversy surrounding the ownership of the bones because of the local Native American tribe Matia questions custody other names and they wanted to bury them according to their tribal traditions and Sciences sued the US in order to have the ability to pass on the first and they won because the judge found that at the huge materia did not have a cultural tradition that connected in any way with the phones were suspected to be old and sure enough Winchester before they were found to be probably about nine thousand years old and because is Kennewick Man researchers figured out the deal about ah it's a complex issue because I don't know much about the spread of early American people we know a lot but there's a lot of time together man added a new puzzle piece it was quite interesting for a lot of researchers to figure out if there's been a lot of to be about what app where can we can came from and commands possible to send in square and all that good stuff so thats it thats the shortest I can I can some of that up for you the tailor to go with me to see a 2000 years old to be as much is 9000 Emilie interesting about that was at the school does not have a typical Native American teachers it looks like a tional oh it also has some other features that are doing question anything show this implies that the very different about the usual steno story that that has been sold population the American citizen new puzzle piece which really close to question a lot of thought we knew about who came over when that reason that your new modern Native American tribes to bring them to establish this is an ancestor they can't stop us a connection not even in American Sign terms of morphology DNA apparently has been a critical show show up to the ownership controversy in 2005 John McCain introduce amendment to neck pro which is the American grades protection repatriation exceeded the law that these Americans can say hey does bones your ass to inches you have to give me to watch the show the amendment would have said change the definition of Native American from: is indigenous to the United States to is or was indigenous to the United States but that fat to build is never passed this exchange had gone through man would be considered did American because you sound old take it and that would raise a whole new batch of issues because at that point to figure out which tribe get to bury Kennewick Man very good chance that you you won't be able to find a ride if you do a chance that people already wiped them out to the point that amendment was at all so many of the descendant have been wiped out really fair to require them to establish a continuous connection so they want to loosen the criteria but I think it's unfortunate because I'm a psychic point of view we want to study the remains of of human North America to pieces puzzle together and if you don't get the opportunity to do that we're going to lose a lot of information Ashley my opinion is that when you going back styles of years these bones belong to humanity their part of our shared history and your day any history of our species and yes I think that you have the right to have scientists study this to figure out to 50 piece of history together is a lot of religion Native American religion culture take it easy have certainly traditions if they believe that the scientist are investigating what are going against it really traditions then like that is there a position ray and was the argument and Avondale meteo is sad Daryl history goes back long enough to encompass tease at remains um and and governments nine that is the government rejecting the religious beliefs any right now this means are held at the Museum at you dub and they're not on display um because it would be insulting to this potentially in the Native Americans in controversy NCO when we should control over the years in limbo no actually this is owned by the federal government specifically the Army Corps of Engineers and being held by the museum is a neutral party but not being studied not being displayed so it really is still on result UTI I forgot to mention I mention to discover the remains at what makes the surnames particularly interesting is how completely where I'm at first blush it seem like they were only maybe a 100 200 years old um it wasn't until they did um radiocarbon dating that they were able to fix it The Day at around 9300 years so like the there only one maybe two major bones that were missing and Aries like fools set of teeth inside the school also is a tremendous amount that they could learn from these remains. What's the story from 9200 years ago in America.

News Items

Skeptical Conferences (7:14)

• TAM
• DragonCon
• CSICon

So let's move on to the news items so we are back

Sally Ride (11:26)

CNN: Thank you, Sally Ride

Mood Photography (17:36)

Neurologica Blog: Mood Photography

Computer Modeling Life (24:06)

Phys.org: Researchers produce first complete computer model of an organism

Artificial Jellyfish (28:30)

BBC News: Artificial jellyfish created from heart cells

Firewalk Mishap (33:20)

Neurologica Blog: Firewalk Mishap

Science or Fiction (47:31)

This section is in the middle of being transcribed by tnewsome (talk) as of {{{date}}}. To help avoid duplication, please do not transcribe this section while this message is displayed.

(jingle)

Voiceover: It's time for Science or Fiction

S: Each week I come up with three science news items or facts, two real and one fake. And I challenge my panel of skeptics to tell me which one they think is the fake. You guys ready for this week?

J: Yeah.

B: Yeah.

E: Uh huh.

J: Oh Yeah.

S: Oh yeah. Okay, here we go. Item number one: A new study show that while multitasking a visual task with an audio task—such as driving while talking on the phone—significantly impairs performance, combining two visual tasks had little effect. Item number two: Scientists have identified a new syndrome—delayed severe allergic reaction to red meat caused by a tick bite. And item number three: Researchers have found a distinct subsystem for smell in the mouse that is likely dedicated to smelling behaviorally important odors, such as fear. Bob, go first.

B: Uh, oh boy, wow. You know you read news items— I don't know where you pull these from. Ummm.

S: And you never will (laughs), if I can help it! Imagine how hard my job would be if you knew where I'm going for my stupid news items.

B: Ha, ha. Alright a new study shows that while multitasking a visual test with an audio task impairs performance like we've heard before, but combing two visuals had little effect. Uh man, you know, I'm just not, I'm just not buying that. Cause all the studies I've read, not recently, but we've talked about it enough, they really didn't distinguish that. And I would think that, I would think that if you had two visual tasks, I mean, the idea of going back and forth, you know, would kind of the same as, you know, multitasking at work. You're going from one task to another, to the other and it's just never as good as just sticking to the one for a while. Umm, hmm. Let's see. Got a new syndrome here, delayed severe allergic reaction to red meat caused by a tick bite. Damn. I have no idea what to say about that. I can't think of anything that would get any red flags. Oh geez, I don't know. Let's see what the third one is. Distinct subsystem for smell in the mouse dedicated to things like fear. Umm, bsch-yeah, I guess, that's possible. When a creature is experiencing fear there could be some sort of release of something that would be identifiable and associated with fear— I guess. Two visual tasks. Alright, I'm gonna say the multitasking one. Umm, I'm— I still think that even if it's two visual tasks that multitasking there will be some impairment going on, because that. So yeah, I'll say that ones fiction.

S: Okay, and Rebecca?

R: Okay, the multitasking item reminds me of something I read ages ago that showed that talking on a cell phone while driving impairs your ability to drive safely much, much than carrying on a conversation with someone who is in the car with you. Which at the time, I think, was attributed to the fact that you don't have to guess at the other person's emotions and things when they're in the car with you. But you are using your sight. Uhh, so, more so, than you would on the cell phone. So, because of that, that item rings true to me. That, uhh, audio is more demanding for us than visuals. Sooo, tentatively I'm saying that one makes sense. "Allergic reaction to red meat caused by a tick bite", I haven't, I only recently learned that you can have allergic reactions to meat. I didn't realize that was a thing. But I know that is a thing now so I'm more likely to believe that than I might have previously. Caused by a tick bite? Yeah, I mean, I guess see, maybe, you know you have a certain immune response to a tick bite that also cause an allergy that you didn't have before. So that one makes sense too. The one, the one that's not making sense is the idea that mice have a dedicated area for, a dedicated subsystem for smelling fear because, mostly because behaviorally important odors such as fear, that's what bugs me because I don't understand how smelling fear in another animal is important to mouse at all. Like mice are just scared of everything, all the time. Right? Like why would they care if the cat that's after them is afraid of something. Suddenly they are gonna turn around and charge the cat? No, that's not gonna happen. I've never seen that happen. All I've ever seen is mice running for their dear little lives. So, I can't see any reason for the mouse to have the ability to detect fear in other animals. So, that one, I'm gonna say is the fiction.

S: Okay, Evan?

E: Well, let's have a look. Umm, the multitasking one, we've spoken quite a few times on the show about multitasking. Umm, but specifically, visual task with an audio task? I'm not sure we've phrased it in a specific context such as this. So, umm, it's very interesting. Significantly impairs performance, combining two visual effects had little effect. Two visual tasks had little effect. Well, driving is a visual task, what else would I be doing while I'm driving? Visual task, well— texting is a visual task. Kinda thinking that, I mean, well that's other tasks as well but certainly visuals a main component of that. Uhh, hhm, I'm not sure about that one. Umm, the second one the new syndrome. Severe— delayed severe allergic reaction to red meat. And the tick bites the carrier? So apparently what's happening here is that the tick bite carries something in it's saliva? Little tick's saliva? That gets into your system, through the blood and causes you to have an allergic reaction to red meat? Is the anything— I can't—I'm trying to think of what else to kinda equate this to. But I can't think of an example off the top of my head. (sucks breath) So, moving one to the last one. Mi— I mean— uhh. Mice that have a distinct subsystem for smell? That smells behavioral[ly] important odors as fear. I'm thinking that that one's— of the three— I kinda think that that one probably is the most likely to be true. You know, they find all kinds of cool things about mice. Mice are the classic test animal. But a distinct subsystem. Uhh, I'm not sure, that one seems to make a lot of sense to me in a certain way. Umm, Rebecca, you were talking about how mice are kinda fearful and skittish of everything and I think that actually plays into, uhh, why they may have a subsystem for it that they detect it. So, it's between, for me, multitasking or the tick bite and allergy. (sucks breath) Uhh, well, I don't like the two visual tasks having little effect. I don't know about that, I think you really gotta keep your eyes on the road, that's the bottom line. So, I'll say that that one's the fiction.

J: That a boy!

S: (drowsily) I'm sorry, which one?

E: The multitasking is the fiction.

S: I'm, I was doing something else.

(laughter)

S: Alright, Jay?

E: Ha, ha, ha.

J: I'm gonna go in reverse order. I absolutely think the one about the mice smelling fear— being wired to smell fear. Sure, that makes a lot of sense to me. I'm curious to know—

R: Seriously?

J: Yeah, just.

R: Just me?

J: Well, you know, I don't want to throw out the big pheromone thing. I mean it's like people throw that word around like, you know, it explains all these different things or whatever. But absolutely, you know, sure they could smell— you know, you were talking about the cat as a predator and all that and, sure, why wouldn't they be able to smell it. Smell things that the animal is putting off, whatever. Yeah, that makes sense. The one about the red meat caused by tick bites, the allergy situation. The only thing about that one I don't like is the word "delayed". Like a "delayed sever allergic reaction". Why would it be delayed? It's very strange. I hate ticks and I hate being bitten by ticks and I hate everything to do with them. And I think we should try to destroy all ticks and bedbugs. But anyway, I don't know about this one, I mean, what have I got to say other than it's weird and I hope that that one's the fiction. But the one that I didn't like from the moment that I heard it— that's why I went in reverse order— is this whole hoo-hah about combing visual tasks has little effect, that's BS. Combining visual tasks, meaning two different things you have to visually keep track of at the same time, that one is the fiction by far. Is the fiction. Thank-you.

S: Okay.

J: Thank-you.

S: Alright. So—

R: I'm alone in here? I can't believe I'm the only—like, uh!

S: (dryly) You're alone.

J: A-looone!

R: Immediately the mouse one.

S: You're alone. Jay, what about bed ticks? What do you feel about them?

J: Oh my God. Imagine if there were pen ticks! (laughs) Oh my God. No!

R: Dear Lord, no. Something new to be scared of.

E:

S: Alright. You all agree that scientists have identified a new syndrome, a delayed sever allergic reaction to red meat caused by a tick bite. You all think that one is science. And that one is (pauses)— science.

J: Uh, why is it delayed?

R: Yay!

J: Why delayed?

S: I don't know. But it's the first one. It's the first delayed anaphylactic, or severe allergic, reaction that has been identified.

E: Wow.

S: Uh, this is a study, really a case series, where they identified two patients that the same syndrome. They were all bitten by the lone star tick and had a—

R: How ironic, given the Lone Star Steakhouse.

S: Yeah. So the—

E: Ha, ha, ha. Sorry. I like that.

S: The tick has a specific carbohydrate that produces an immune response. The same carbohydrate is in the red meat, meat derived from mammals, so can produce a secondary or an anaphylactic severe allergic reaction. There are a couple of firsts here. This is the first identified anaphylactic reaction to a non-protein, to a carbohydrate. It's the first delayed reaction, 6-8 hours delayed after eating the meat. So, like you have a steak dinner and then in the middle of the night you wake up and can't breathe.

J: Yikes.

S: Yeah.

J: Ticks really suck.

S: Triggered by a tick bite! Yeah, that's cool. It's very interesting.

J: I mean, seriously—

S: Imagine how hard it is to make that diagnosis. But they're saying that if there are physicians in this part of the world, bits of the south-west, and patients present with an anaphylactic reaction after consuming red meat you should consider this newly identified syndrome. Very interesting. There are a lot of new things in there. Umm, let's go back to number 1: A new study shows that while multitasking a visual task with an audio task, such as driving while talking on the phone, significantly impairs performance, combining two visual tasks had little effect. Bob, Jay and Evan, you all think this one is the fiction.

S: And Rebecca—

E: (resignedly) Uhh.

S: (continues) You think this one is science.

R: No whammy, no whammy, no whammy.

E: This is it.

S: This one is—

E: I mean, this is it, right?

J: Oh—

S: (continues) The fiction!

E, B, J: (collective joyous moaning)

S: It was fiction! I suppose you could have thought that maybe, like, if you were integrating two visual into one, sort of, meta-visual task that wouldn't be multitasking but— no, no. Uhh, but no. It did in fact— the study showed that combining two visual tasks is even worse. Has more of a negative effect

S: (continues) That was the way to go with this one.

J: Thank you.

R: Ewwwh.

B: C'mon, it was obvious.

E: Wow. (cat noise)

S: They used eye tracking technology to see how the subjects were handling the tasks that they were given but also their performance on the task. And, yeah, when trying to combine two visual tasks their performance greatly suffered. The other interesting wrinkle here though is that when asked how they did, the people who were trying to multitask two visual tasks thought that they did better than when trying to multitask a visual and an audio task, even though they did worse. So they had a false sense of security, if you will, with the two visual tasks. So they were trying to model what would be worse, talking on the cell phone while driving or texting while driving. And definitely, texting while driving is much worse.

J: That's odd.

S: Kind of seems intuitive to me. I mean, you are visually distracted while trying to text.

R: Yeah, but, and you're using your fingers.

S: Yeah, although I don't—

S: I don't think that's the component though, the problem.

R: Really?

S: It's just the distraction. The diminishing of attention. You have to look away from the road to text. You brought up the previous data that shows that it's more distracting to talk on the phone than to someone who's sitting next to you in the car. We've brought this up before, you know, there's speculation about why that might be. There's the extra set of eyes, (do they) compensate for the distraction somewhat? My personal experience is that I find it really hard to talk on a cell phone, in that is takes a certain amount of concentration because the cell phone companies typically give just enough bandwidth so that human speech is recognizable. But not a lot more than that. So they are always restraining the bandwidth and I just find the audio quality, even as phones get better, the audio quality is really such that I really have to pay attention to understand what the person is saying over the cell phone.

R: Yeah.

S: Do you guys find that too?

J: No!

R: Yeah, I guess. I don't drive.

J: Ahhhh!

E: Yeah, that's right.

J: No, I don't agree with you.

S: And now we've got to use the the hands-free devices and some crappy ear phone, you're not even holding the phone up to your head. It's even harder.

J: What do you mean, it's harder?

E: It's harder. The voice, the sound quality is worse with the hands-free ear buds.

J: My head phones are epic. I have Bose headphones

Item number 1: A new study shows that while multitasking a visual task with an audio task, such as driving while talking on the phone, significantly impairs performance, combining two visual tasks had little effect. Item number 2: Scientists have identified a new syndrome - delayed severe allergic reaction to red meat caused by a tick bite. Item number 3: Researchers have found a distinct subsytem for smell in the mouse that is likely dedicated to smelling behaviorally important odors, such as fear.

Skeptical Quote of the Week (1:07:11)

Homeopaths do not have a physical brain, but merely 'skull water' with the memory of brains.

Robin Ince

References