SGU Episode 866

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SGU Episode 866
February 12th 2022
(brief caption for the episode icon)
SGU 865                      SGU 867
Skeptical Rogues
S: Steven Novella
B: Bob Novella
C: Cara Santa Maria
J: Jay Novella
E: Evan Bernstein
Quote of the Week
I strive to be a lifelong learner and I have never learned anything by being right.
Dr. R. Shulze, SGU listener
Links
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Show Notes
Forum Discussion

Introduction

Voice-over: You're listening to the Skeptics' Guide to the Universe, your escape to reality.

S: Hello and welcome to the Skeptics' Guide to the Universe. Today is Wednesday, February 9^th, 2022 and this is your host, Steven Novella. Joining me this week are Bob Novella...

B: Hey, everybody!

S: Cara Santa Maria...

C: Howdy.

S: Jay Novella...

J: Hey guys.

S: ...and Evan Bernstein.

E: Good Evening everyone.

B: How many episodes have we done?

S: This is episode 866.

B: So this was the first episode in 860 somehow that I've done where I was yawning right when you said "Bob".

(laughter)

E: It was bound to happen, wasn't it bound to happen?

B: I did well, I think you couldn't even tell.

C: No you recovered.

E: Wow, for 17 years.

J: Bob, what skill?

E: You've come a long way since "Hellooouu".

B: I didn't know I could do it.

S: But you broke your record so you got to start your count, one day without you yawning.

E: Zero days without an accident.

COVID-19 Update (0:57)

S: So we are on the down slope of the Omicron surge, numbers are plummeting.

E: Get outta here Omicron.

S: Yeah they peaked like 800 000 a day now they're down.

B: New cases, right?

S: New cases 200 000, hospitalizations are falling which is like you know, probably the most important thing.

B: Yeah.

S: Deaths always are a late sign, so they're they're just cresting.

C: But we did surpass 900 000 deaths just in America.

S: 910 000

B: 900? Oh my god.

C: 're million in America I think.

S: Yeah.

B: Of course. Oh my god.

C: Just, we're not per capita we're doing not well in this country, compared to other like industrialized countries.

S: No, no not at all.

B: We have crusted as well I would say.

J: I read a couple of days ago, Steve that we're we still have about 2 000 deaths a day, have you read any stats like that?

S: Yeah new daily reported deaths are still over 2 000.

J: Wow. That's still, you know think about what we've gotten used to, I mean it's horrifying, like it just happens every day and and most of us aren't even thinking about it.

C: Ooh yeah and in California they've announced a few days ago that they're about to lift mask mandates, same thing happened in New York just today or yesterday.

B: Connecticut as well for schools.

E: Illinois announced it as well, New Jersey I believe just announced it.

C: I'm not ready, I mean I am.

E: Continue wearing mask then.

S: You can still wear your mask if you want to.

C: I'm not ready to be around other people not wearing masks. I know it's weird.

B: I know it's weird, I mean I walk into my deli every you know five days a week I pop in grab my sandwich and pop out I'm done, I'm double masked double masked because I gotta get my sausage and egg sandwich, nothing's gonna stop that from happening, so I'm double masked and people just, most people that come in no mask at all this is like Connecticut I mean where it's kind of you know it's not like.

C: Is that legal? In California you can't do that, you can't walk into a restaurant without a mask.

E: There's not a government, yeah there is not a government mandate for masks right now.

C: I see. So that's kind of personal. In California you can't enter a public establishment without a mask and in order to enter or at least in Los Angeles, I don't know if this is statewide but at least in Los Angeles you can't dine in a restaurant without also showing your vaccine card because you're going to take your mask off.

S: Yeah you have to take your mask off to eat.

C: So it's I mean it's one of those things where I'm of two minds about it, like I'm not ready because I'm paranoid and because I you know I haven't gotten Covid, I'm like a unicorn and I don't want it.

B: Me yeah, I haven't either, but I wouldn't describe myself as a unicorn but I haven't either.

C: But also at the same time Bob like I don't want to wear a mask forever it's it's I'm over it, I feel like we're living in this super dystopian future where nothing's changing, like it feels like this is never going to end.

S: Well I mean it will end and the way out of this is going to be through science and technology.

E: Of course.

Nasal Spray Vaccine (3:53)

S: There's a couple a couple of things that I wanted to talk about, a researchers are developing a nasal spray Covid vaccine, so it's not a company yet this is just sort of research, this is done in mice, not even in people yet. But the idea was they developed very simple, it was a nasal spray that has the spike protein, that's it just the spike protein from the virus no adjuvant, nothing else in there so let's just spray spike protein in mouse's noses and see what happens. So they compared two groups, one group got one dose of an mRNA vaccine and then two weeks later got the nasal spray, and the other group just got the one dose of the of the vaccine. Then they exposed them to the Sars-CoV-2 virus. The group that had just the vaccine and not the nasal spray, 80 percent of the mice died.

C: Oh my god.

S: The group of like that got both, well they wanted to make you know, they wanted to have a high death rate because they needed to see what was happening.

C: So they like they exposed them to like some like a lot of viruses.

S: They have a high dose yeah yeah.

B: Mice catch Covid, I kind of didn't know that.

S: So did deer by the way.

C: So did dear, yeah (laughs).

E: Yeah I heard about the deer.

S: Now the group that got the nasal spray in addition to the one dose, guess guess how many died.

B: None.

S: Zero, none.

C: Well what happens─

E: That means nothing.

C: Did they not do a third where they just get the nasal spray?

S: No because it's really designed to be a booster, it's not a vaccine really it's a nasal spray booster and so that's that's what they were testing.

C: Because it would be interesting to see if they just get the spike protein.

S: Of course. And they may do that with later studies if it goes forward, but the idea is that you the the technique is called prime and spike. So first you prime the immune system with the dose of the vaccine and then you you give the spike protein into the into the respiratory tract and that because you know the respiratory mucosa has its own antibodies in, the IgA type antibodies, that's like a first line of defense of things getting into your body through your mucosa you know your respiratory mucosa. And so the idea is you have systemic immunity with the vaccine and then you'll have another layer of defense in your you know the nose and your lungs through the through the nasal spray and that approach seemed to work, at least in this you know this mouse study.

C: But that's also how most people catch the virus, like this is a respiratory virus.

S: Yes, that's that's the point.

C: I mean I'm sure you can still like lick the virus, I'm sure you can still like you know you can get it otherwise but it does seem like it would almost, I don't know it would be interesting to compare it to the main immunity from just the vaccine.

S: They only gave one dose not two and they they probably gave them a high inoculum, you know to really give them a high exposure. So if this develops into a full strategy but I don't think they would replace the second dose or even the booster shot but just as an additional layer of defense. You know the the higher we can push the the effectiveness of whatever vaccine strategy we come up with the better.

B: The less chance of a variant.

S: If we can go from 85 to 90% to 98-99%─

E: Now you're talking.

S: ─something like that, then yeah that that could really go a long way to tamping down this this pandemic even more. Of course we need to get the number of people getting anything you know up getting any vaccines up.

C: Yeah and that's the thing like nasal vaccines or in this case nasal boosters or nasal adjuvant kind of therapies, they are um so much easier to administer, like you don't need skilled technicians, I'd be interested to see─

S: You do it at home.

C: ─if yeah do you do it at home I wonder if this can be kept at room temperature, like this could be a game changer globally.

S: Yeah yeah so it's definitely a worth worthwhile research line. The other thing I wanted to mention, we talked about the combination Flu and Covid booster, I think we mentioned that Pfizer is developing one, Moderna also announced they're developing one and it's also they said it's going to be it's it's about to start trials with an Omicron version of their vaccine and they're developing the the combination Flu-Covid vaccine. Which they not they said by 2024 so that's not going to be for a while but but that may be fine, I mean once we get to the point where in where we are in maintenance mode like the pandemic is basically down to background levels, where it's endemic it's not going to go away of course but it's like a bad version of the flu, that's just going to be there and we're going to get our every six month or every one year vaccine this one I'm just hoping it's annual. But combining it with the flu you know that could be one jab instead of two might be easier to get compliance up.

E: Hell yeah.

S: And then you could you know have the other layer of some kind of nasal spray booster you know to really have super you know super immunity you know that could be you know really effective. And then then you then you go that Cara, that's when you go about your normal life. Because if you get it it's like you got a cold. Like we right we didn't have masks and distancing and everyone got sick two or three times a year with their with their colds and Flus and stuff you know you got your vaccine. And you just accept you're going to get sick a couple times a year and this will just be one more type of virus that's going to make you sick if you are protected. Because other things if you do get sick it's going to be minor. At least chances are─

C: Yeah if you're vaccinated.

S: If you're vaccinated yeah you probably won't get to go into a hospital or die from it. But, Covid's still a nastier virus than the Flu. That's the only thing is that the more we study it and the the long cove is like yeah this there's a lot of long-term symptoms the more you look for them the more you find them. And it's really shouldn't be thought of as a benign virus.

C: No, no no. But we also are developing more and better treatments not just preventive measures but more and better treatments as well, right? Because I know we mentioned once ages ago I said something about Tamiflu and a bunch of people reach out and they're like "Tamiflu sucks" and I was like oh I didn't really realize that we really there's kind of nothing you can do for the Flu except hydrate you know, supportive care like there's not a lot of treatment available if you have.

S: Yeah just sucks for a week or so.

C: Yeah yeah it just sucks and you have to hope that you don't have something underlying and that you don't get so sick that it turns into something else and you die.

S: That's why I got my flu vaccine it's a lot better than suffering with the flu I've had the flu before it's really tough.

Okay Evan, I believe this is the second time you're doing this, the name that quote segment?

Quotation Rotation (10:04)

E: That's right Name That Quote, also known as Quotation Rotation.

S: Okay, that's official name?

E: Well I'm also playing with Quotation Sensation, Quotation Nation, anything with a...

S: Quotidian?

E: (laughs) but I like quotation rotation so I'm going to work with that for that.

S: All right that's your working title.

E: And if you recall this is a game that we're going to play in which I'm going to give you a quote and each of you each of the four of you are going to say where you where you heard it from or who you think said it. We have a theme for this one─

B: Ugh.

E: ─and the theme is movies.

B: Ah!

E: So all of these quotes came from movies, that I think you've all seen. We're about to find out. And it's multiple choice which is nice so you just don't─

B: Yes, thank you.

E: Yes absolutely a b and c. All right. We've got five of these let's get through them.

First one here's the first quote: "Luckily in the history of humanity nothing bad has ever happened from lighting hydrogen on fire". Your choices are:

a) Contact

b) The Martian

c) Ad Astra

Bob we'll start with you.

B: Not the Hindenburg movie? Shit. (laughter) Oh Boy let's say Ad Astra.

E: Bob says Ad Astra okay Jay.

J: I'm gonna say The Martian.

E: Cara.

C: I said The Martian in my head before you gave us the options so I'm gonna have to stick with that.

E: And Steve.

S: Yeah I didn't see Ad Astra but that does sound, I do remember the quote so it has to be from one of the ones I seen and it sounds like the kind of snark I remember from The Martian so I'll go with The Martian as well.

B: Yeah me too, yeah me too.

E: Bob's gonna change his answer if he could to The Martian and the answer is b) The Martian, yes, Mark Watney, it's from the scene where he had to you know make water.

C: Make water.

S: Yeah, right.

E: And he goes through the whole process, it's nice it gives you a little chemical analysis on how it all works and wraps it up by saying: "And then if I just direct the hydrogen to a small area and burn it. Luckily in the history of humanity nothing bad has ever happened from lighting hydrogen". And boom. Goes up in flames.

B: I really recommend that book on unabridged on audio it's wonderful.

E: Next quote here we go: "Every time we have a chance to get ahead, they move the finish line.". Was that from:

a) The Right Stuff

b) Tucker: The Man and His Dreams

c) Hidden Figures

Now we're going to start with Jay.

J: I'm definitely going to go with the first one.

E: The Right Stuff? Jay says The Right Stuff. Okay Cara.

C: I've only seen Hidden Figures out of those three but I think it is Hidden Figures it sounds like they're talking about yeah moving the goal posts.

E: Steve.

S: Yeah I was thinking either Hidden Figures or the Tucker one because that is I do that is a lot of I'll do just to be different from Cara I'll say Tucker.

E: Okay Tucker and Bob.

B: I'm gonna say Hidden Figures great movie and this totally fits that movie I don't specifically remember that quote but it makes sense.

E: And the correct answer is c) Hidden Figures: "Every time we have a chance to get ahead they move the finish line.", let me see if I can tell you in what context it was happening, it was a conversation between Vivian Mitchell who was one of the employees at NASA and Mary Jackson who actually said the character Mary Jackson who said the quote, the person Mary Jackson I should say. And which they're exchanging you know a conversation about female engineers in the in the engineering training program and they require and Vivian says we require advanced extension courses through the University of Virginia in which you know of course black women could not attend to take those classes and then Mary Jackson yep "Every time we have a chance to get ahead they move the finish line", indeed.

All right third quote here we go: "We've always defined ourselves by the ability to overcome the impossible". Is that from:

a) Interstellar

b) 2001 a Space Odyssey

c) Gravity

All right Cara we'll start with you.

C: Uh I never saw Interstellar. I think it's probably Gravity it could have been Interstellar but I don't know, some some shit goes down in gravity so I'm gonna say it's Gravity.

E: Is there a reason you didn't see Interstellar?

C: I just never got around to it I heard such good things about the science you know that like Kip Thorne and you know all these great people were consulting but then I heard it wasn't that good a movie.

S: It was okay.

C: Yeah, so, you know I don't love sci-fi but if it like if it grabs me it grabs me but yeah just never got around to seeing it so, I'll go with Gravity.

E: Directed by Christopher Nolan too. Okay so you're saying Gravity. Steve.

S: Yeah I'll say Gravity as well, it's definitely not 2001 I mean I saw that movie so many times I don't remember that quote and there's so little dialogue in that movie like you would kind of remember every line. No I say Gravity.

E: Bob.

B: Yeah I think Gravity as well.

E: And Jay.

J: Gravity.

E: We have everybody in agreeance that it is Gravity. The answer is a) Interstellar.

C: Ah crap.

(laughter)

B: Wow, nice.

E: Don't you love it?

C: I do love it because that means I'm still ahead, whoo!

E: That's right yep so far, let's see Cara you've gotten two correct, Steve's gotten what, one correct, Jay's got one, Bob's got one. All right two more we'll see if we can break up this log jam, here we go.

The fourth one: "Advice about keeping secrets, it's a lot easier if you don't know them in the first place". Is that from:

a) A Beautiful Mind

b) The Manhattan Project

c) The Imitation Game

All right Steve, we'll start with you.

S: I don't recognize that quote but I'll say The Imitation Game.

E: And we move on to Bob.

B: Yeah Imitation Game. I think. Makes sense. I think, it just popped in my head. Imitation Game.

E: Jay.

J: This is a really hard one, I mean I'm just gonna go with these guys.

E: Okay and Cara.

C: That was my original instinct too and I'm probably screwing myself here and leveling the playing field out but I think I'm gonna go with The Manhattan Project. I can imagine a time when somebody would ask somebody something and they were like listen I'm not gonna tell you because if you don't know you won't have to keep it as a secret.

E: That's interesting Cara because you have two correct everyone else has one correct so if you're wrong and if the guys are right yeah that means it's a two-two tie from everyone going into the last question the answer is c) The Imitation Game.

C: Dang.

(laughter)

E: All right folks last one. This will be it. Here we go: "Perverted scientists who advance an insidious theory called evolution". Is that from the movie:

a) Creation

b) Inherit the Wind

c) Planet of the Apes

E: And we will start with Bob.

B: Inherit, Creation, I have no idea what the hell that is.

C: I don't know what Inherit the Wind is.

B: Scopes trial baby.

E: They have the monkey's scope trial.

C: Oh no way oh okay.

E: And Creation was a movie starring Paul Bettany as Darwin.

C: Damn now I wanna watch that.

E: Yeah.

B: All right create, I'll say Creation.

E: Okay Bob says Creation. Jay.

J: That would be Planet of the Apes.

E: Interesting. Cara.

C: No I want to go last.

B: Suck it up I went first twice.

C: I'll go Inherit the Wind, I never saw it.

E: Oh wow, we have a split, all right Steve break the tie.

S: I really think this is Planet of the Apes.

B: No way.

C: Seriously?

E: And the answer is c) Planet of the Apes.

B: No way.

E: Jay and Steve, well done.

J: I knew it for certain, I absolutely knew it.

B: Really?

C: You sounded like you knew.

E: From the courtroom scene.

S: A the courtroom scene, I was like 90% , I was like 90%.

B: Wow it's been too long that means it's been too long since I've watched it.

E: Absolutely.

C: Oh yeah, it's been forever because you're talking about the original Planet of the Apes.

E: 1968, Charlton Heston.

B: Great movie, great movie.

E: THE Planet of the Apes. The only one I can recommend, I can't recommend a single other. So good job guys it was very close and Jay and Steve you guys pulled around the end well done well done. Thanks for playing Quotation rotation this was fun.

S: Thanks Evan.

C: Thanks Ev.

E: Thank you.

News Items

S:

B:

C:

J:

E:

(laughs) (laughter) (applause) [inaudible]

Treating Spinal Cord Injury (18:22)

• Incremental Advance Treating Spinal Cord Injury

Artificial Enamel (34:06)

• New artificial enamel is harder and more durable than the real thing

Laser Thermal Propulsion (45:07)

• Riding a laser to Mars

Chimps Self-Medicate (1:03:22)

• Chimps self-medicate using bugs

Who's That Noisy? (1:08:47)

Answer to previous Noisy:

First- and second-stage separation of Electron Launch Vehicle, 2020

New Noisy (1:13:03)

[kids and adults talking to an animal lowing and making other low grunts]

... Just tell me what animal it is.

Questions/Emails/Corrections/Follow-ups (1:15:29)

Email #1: De-extinction

_consider_using_block_quotes_for_emails_read_aloud_in_this_segment_ with_reduced_spacing_for_long_chunks –

Science or Fiction (1:24:50)

Item #1: A new CT scanning technology uses the low end of the gamma ray spectrum, rather than X-rays, to form images with over 10 times the resolution. Item #2: Engineers have made a robot that can morph from one shape to another through liquid metal yet hold either shape with a rigid structure. Item #3: Scientists have discovered the first known metal alloy that does not soften as it is heated through a wide temperature range, above 1,000K.

Answer	Item
Fiction	Gamma ray scanning tech
Science	Morphing robot
Science	Tough metal alloy

Host	Result
Steve

Rogue	Guess
Bob	Morphing robot
Cara	Gamma ray scanning tech
Evan	Gamma ray scanning tech

Voice-over: It's time for Science or Fiction.

Skeptical Quote of the Week (1:36:42)

I strive to be a lifelong learner and I have never learned anything by being right.
– Dr. R. Shulze, SGU listener

Signoff (1:38:36)

S: —and until next week, this is your Skeptics' Guide to the Universe.

S: Skeptics' Guide to the Universe is produced by SGU Productions, dedicated to promoting science and critical thinking. For more information, visit us at theskepticsguide.org. Send your questions to info@theskepticsguide.org. And, if you would like to support the show and all the work that we do, go to patreon.com/SkepticsGuide and consider becoming a patron and becoming part of the SGU community. Our listeners and supporters are what make SGU possible.

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