SGU Episode 367

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SGU Episode 367
28th July 2012
(brief caption for the episode icon)
SGU 366                      SGU 368
Skeptical Rogues
S: Steven Novella
B: Bob Novella
R: Rebecca Watson
J: Jay Novella
E: Evan Bernstein
Quote of the Week
Homeopaths do not have a physical brain, but merely 'skull water' with the memory of brains.
Robin Ince
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Introduction

You're listening to the Skeptics' Guide to the Universe, your escape to reality.

Guide to the universe today is Wednesday July 25th 2012 everybody watches hello everyone Jana hey guys and Bernstein hi ho hi ho Kermit the Frog seeing that d20 game

This Day in Skepticism (0:44)

• July 28, 1996: The remains of Kennewick Man was discovered

alright are Beck a porn about today yeah tell you what's important about today what you doing today is that this is the anniversary of July 28th anniversary the discovery of Kennewick Man 2396 Bieber means of man found in Washington State and people probably best snow can a man do to the controversy surrounding the ownership of the bones because of the local Native American tribe Matia questions custody other names and they wanted to bury them according to their tribal traditions and Sciences sued the US in order to have the ability to pass on the first and they won because the judge found that at the huge materia did not have a cultural tradition that connected in any way with the phones were suspected to be old and sure enough Winchester before they were found to be probably about nine thousand years old and because is Kennewick Man researchers figured out the deal about ah it's a complex issue because I don't know much about the spread of early American people we know a lot but there's a lot of time together man added a new puzzle piece it was quite interesting for a lot of researchers to figure out if there's been a lot of to be about what app where can we can came from and commands possible to send in square and all that good stuff so thats it thats the shortest I can I can some of that up for you the tailor to go with me to see a 2000 years old to be as much is 9000 Emilie interesting about that was at the school does not have a typical Native American teachers it looks like a tional oh it also has some other features that are doing question anything show this implies that the very different about the usual steno story that that has been sold population the American citizen new puzzle piece which really close to question a lot of thought we knew about who came over when that reason that your new modern Native American tribes to bring them to establish this is an ancestor they can't stop us a connection not even in American Sign terms of morphology DNA apparently has been a critical show show up to the ownership controversy in 2005 John McCain introduce amendment to neck pro which is the American grades protection repatriation exceeded the law that these Americans can say hey does bones your ass to inches you have to give me to watch the show the amendment would have said change the definition of Native American from: is indigenous to the United States to is or was indigenous to the United States but that fat to build is never passed this exchange had gone through man would be considered did American because you sound old take it and that would raise a whole new batch of issues because at that point to figure out which tribe get to bury Kennewick Man very good chance that you you won't be able to find a ride if you do a chance that people already wiped them out to the point that amendment was at all so many of the descendant have been wiped out really fair to require them to establish a continuous connection so they want to loosen the criteria but I think it's unfortunate because I'm a psychic point of view we want to study the remains of of human North America to pieces puzzle together and if you don't get the opportunity to do that we're going to lose a lot of information Ashley my opinion is that when you going back styles of years these bones belong to humanity their part of our shared history and your day any history of our species and yes I think that you have the right to have scientists study this to figure out to 50 piece of history together is a lot of religion Native American religion culture take it easy have certainly traditions if they believe that the scientist are investigating what are going against it really traditions then like that is there a position ray and was the argument and Avondale meteo is sad Daryl history goes back long enough to encompass tease at remains um and and governments nine that is the government rejecting the religious beliefs any right now this means are held at the Museum at you dub and they're not on display um because it would be insulting to this potentially in the Native Americans in controversy NCO when we should control over the years in limbo no actually this is owned by the federal government specifically the Army Corps of Engineers and being held by the museum is a neutral party but not being studied not being displayed so it really is still on result UTI I forgot to mention I mention to discover the remains at what makes the surnames particularly interesting is how completely where I'm at first blush it seem like they were only maybe a 100 200 years old um it wasn't until they did um radiocarbon dating that they were able to fix it The Day at around 9300 years so like the there only one maybe two major bones that were missing and Aries like fools set of teeth inside the school also is a tremendous amount that they could learn from these remains. What's the story from 9200 years ago in America.

News Items

Skeptical Conferences (7:14)

• TAM
• DragonCon
• CSICon

So let's move on to the news items so we are back from the Amazing meeting 2012 21 and 25 2011 stop ameristop started it I will in 2013 using the decade did not go to Tim this year because of issues that she had with DJ Gracie around that a discussion had online about harassment policies really and many women particularly and a lot of men in couraging skeptic conferences tonight anti harassment policies to help when in a few more comfortable a conference is having you there with their 2010 to dinner in do you agree to do I was a great event tim is very successful isn't it hopefully we can move past this Christmas its cool if you want to learn more about the written about to death online and you're still going to be discussing this issue didn't want to show itself to get dragged down to talk endlessly about this but should definitely a lot to the station is very active online still and be hope to move this forward in a constructive way to say about it free Turkish to a convention coming up Dragon Con that's Labor Day weekend in Atlanta Georgia August 31st to Sept 3rd the entire to you will be there we will be doing a live show on Saturday night I'm told we have to Crystal Ballroom this year which is bigger than the last year which flows out the door so we will have enough room for everybody and we will have tables eyreton to meet our listeners and sell some swag is also going to be recording a private show liquid yes that you're so popular Jeff George in Brian brushwood with us see what tense is here mystery test and yes you will be attending it isn't I ready for the first time Seikon in Nashville from October 22 October 28th Steve and I were there last year so close to Halloween I'm not going to be home are you sure yeah about the costumes but the invite in your email so we will be doing a live show from psych on Thursday October 25th at 7 to 9 p.m. for basically opening the conference George from Indy schedule to entertainment after a show with Vinny and then we're also doing a skeptic's guide dinner on Saturday night we will I have dinner with the tire cast of the issue and other skeptics I will be good be doing some entertainment during the dinner as well still working out the details but that will be going on and you can get tickets to all that at CSI conference start work show the proliferation of skeptical conference is in a good way you at the crib spreading out around the country in around the calendar reasonably well and speaking of this isn't a fool as Sheila Smith Road out there because it's happening soon August 35th I'm going to be in Montreal for the sexy pictures in conference and you can learn more about that at this conference .ca for the show they were doing a dragon college tell people how they can sign up to I have a private showing yeah you can go to skeptical robot.com and you'll see an item Lisette rent-a-center that says its you Friday recording tonight and you can take $50 a ticket and there's a limit of three people it'll be Sunday night at 10 o'clock to 2 times so far because a lot of fun full trust the people I came in

Sally Ride (11:26)

CNN: Thank you, Sally Ride

so the news items we do have a sad news item this week Sally Ride passed away two days ago crushed her to see Sally Ride what was the first woman American in space she wrote a word the special challenger in 1983 on that made her a household name is you actually was a strong advocate a cation you usually use her fame to promote she had a website has the website Sally Ride science.com I produce education materials like that kik on sexy signs signs his life sciences physical signs to reach trying to supplement the very poor public school certification that we get in this country might feel so run science camp to clean girl only St Kitts for girls fourth grade she was awesome I was 13 years old when that happened with huge huge news and I was thinking to myself then why is she the first why we only having women in space this point it seem like it was such a long time coming can a link to the game directions sent to space 20 years prior 53.com is not really Tina Turner school but yeah 40 time direct to that party headlines for ride Sally Ride yes if it lucky growing up to it because she's such a household name by the time I was c*** isn't anything that had ever it never really occurred to me as a kid that will of course course women can go to Stacy be cool scientists I really look up to her you know but it didn't occur to me at the time that she was $60 and she initiate cross any boundaries and she agrees that frontier and she enjoy the faculty at the University of California San Diego the radical astrophysicist crap cleaner as hard core my main memory is for curly haired 0g yeah I was kinda curly show when I was was researching her I was looking up pictures everything I saw the pictures from her on the shuttle with her hair just like me to floating around everything that was burned into my head. Floating around everything that was burned into my head any out the interesting thing that came out after her desk is that not only is she the first woman American woman in space but she is also the first noon gay person in space she's very tight lipped about her private life tonight I don't think the people he knew that she was dying of pancreatic cancer and even fewer people knew that she had a long time lesbian partner 27 years together and her partner is also her business partner at Sally Ride science and she just didn't see the point in making a big deal out of it but there a lot of people now who are looking up to her as a gay icon to first and first lesbian in space Russian didn't know she was a lesbian until now so yeah I like the fact that I didn't know about it I just heard it right now and I really just don't care to be like its impact on when I think of her at all like it makes me even prouder of her because I mean she overcame so much. You know at the same time of the Boy Scouts of America controversy over discriminating against homosexuals. Hey it's really going against a living through a culture change you know a generational call to change for the younger generation of basically doesn't care about sexual orientation and you're just over time its it is attitudes are shifting the Boy Scouts now getting caught in the middle of it show me pictures of me about that is it a date discriminate against atheists and apparently that's OK but now they're getting slack for discriminating is too much sexual so I should mention Girl Scouts uh in in multiple countries initials happened in the US yet the Girl Scouts uh in their pledge Dame mention God and in several countries now Dave publicly dropped that in order to be more um galaxy read more appealing to be pretty girls and the Girl Scouts are awesome when it comes to science education and encouraging girls to explain the natural world so any cookies cookies what's not right in and tell me what's not to love how to change over the years eating those cookies guys so deadly girlscouts Kate noticed every decade you Jason stop it I got over that uses we've noticed that your cookie size is a freaking slowly and steadily beers FairPoint are you a teaser going out seriously make them bigger what are you doing like why stop a more just a record label in those condos cookies take more pictures did you guys hear about the Boy Scout who headed who had it was the Eagle Scout actually turned in the turned in his papers or what is is the bachelor fake give you bad idea the guy the guy wrote the board and said I can't in good conscience maintain my relationship with the Boy Scouts I see him a lot of fish add is back in protest of their sexuality those guys don't need no stinkin City

Mood Photography (17:36)

Neurologica Blog: Mood Photography

Alright well Jay, tell us about

Computer Modeling Life (24:06)

Phys.org: Researchers produce first complete computer model of an organism

Artificial Jellyfish (28:30)

BBC News: Artificial jellyfish created from heart cells

Firewalk Mishap (33:20)

Neurologica Blog: Firewalk Mishap

Science or Fiction (47:31)

This section is in the middle of being transcribed by tnewsome (talk) as of {{{date}}}. To help avoid duplication, please do not transcribe this section while this message is displayed.

(jingle)

Voiceover: It's time for Science or Fiction

S: Each week I come up with three science news items or facts, two real and one fake. And I challenge my panel of skeptics to tell me which one they think is the fake. You guys ready for this week?

J: Yeah.

B: Yeah.

E: Uh huh.

J: Oh Yeah.

S: Oh yeah. Okay, here we go. Item number one: A new study show that while multitasking a visual task with an audio task—such as driving while talking on the phone—significantly impairs performance, combining two visual tasks had little effect. Item number two: Scientists have identified a new syndrome—delayed severe allergic reaction to red meat caused by a tick bite. And item number three: Researchers have found a distinct subsystem for smell in the mouse that is likely dedicated to smelling behaviorally important odors, such as fear. Bob, go first.

B: Uh, oh boy, wow. You know you read news items— I don't know where you pull these from. Ummm.

S: And you never will (laughs), if I can help it! Imagine how hard my job would be if you knew where I'm going for my stupid news items.

B: Ha, ha. Alright a new study shows that while multitasking a visual test with an audio task impairs performance like we've heard before, but combing two visuals had little effect. Uh man, you know, I'm just not, I'm just not buying that. Cause all the studies I've read, not recently, but we've talked about it enough, they really didn't distinguish that. And I would think that, I would think that if you had two visual tasks, I mean, the idea of going back and forth, you know, would kind of the same as, you know, multitasking at work. You're going from one task to another, to the other and it's just never as good as just sticking to the one for a while. Umm, hmm. Let's see. Got a new syndrome here, delayed severe allergic reaction to red meat caused by a tick bite. Damn. I have no idea what to say about that. I can't think of anything that would get any red flags. Oh geez, I don't know. Let's see what the third one is. Distinct subsystem for smell in the mouse dedicated to things like fear. Umm, bsch-yeah, I guess, that's possible. When a creature is experiencing fear there could be some sort of release of something that would be identifiable and associated with fear— I guess. Two visual tasks. Alright, I'm gonna say the multitasking one. Umm, I'm— I still think that even if it's two visual tasks that multitasking there will be some impairment going on, because that. So yeah, I'll say that ones fiction.

S: Okay, and Rebecca?

R: Okay, the multitasking item reminds me of something I read ages ago that showed that talking on a cell phone while driving impairs your ability to drive safely much, much than carrying on a conversation with someone who is in the car with you. Which at the time, I think, was attributed to the fact that you don't have to guess at the other person's emotions and things when they're in the car with you. But you are using your sight. Uhh, so, more so, than you would on the cell phone. So, because of that, that item rings true to me. That, uhh, audio is more demanding for us than visuals. Sooo, tentatively I'm saying that one makes sense. "Allergic reaction to red meat caused by a tick bite", I haven't, I only recently learned that you can have allergic reactions to meat. I didn't realize that was a thing. But I know that is a thing now so I'm more likely to believe that than I might have previously. Caused by a tick bite? Yeah, I mean, I guess see, maybe, you know you have a certain immune response to a tick bite that also cause an allergy that you didn't have before. So that one makes sense too. The one, the one that's not making sense is the idea that mice have a dedicated area for, a dedicated subsystem for smelling fear because, mostly because behaviorally important odors such as fear, that's what bugs me because I don't understand how smelling fear in another animal is important to mouse at all. Like mice are just scared of everything, all the time. Right? Like why would they care if the cat that's after them is afraid of something. Suddenly they are gonna turn around and charge the cat? No, that's not gonna happen. I've never seen that happen. All I've ever seen is mice running for their dear little lives. So, I can't see any reason for the mouse to have the ability to detect fear in other animals. So, that one, I'm gonna say is the fiction.

S: Okay, Evan?

E: Well, let's have a look. Umm, the multitasking one, we've spoken quite a few times on the show about multitasking. Umm, but specifically, visual task with an audio task? I'm not sure we've phrased it in a specific context such as this. So, umm, it's very interesting. Significantly impairs performance, combining two visual effects had little effect. Two visual tasks had little effect. Well, driving is a visual task, what else would I be doing while I'm driving? Visual task, well— texting is a visual task. Kinda thinking that, I mean, well that's other tasks as well but certainly visuals a main component of that. Uhh, hhm, I'm not sure about that one. Umm, the second one the new syndrome. Severe— delayed severe allergic reaction to red meat. And the tick bites the carrier? So apparently what's happening here is that the tick bite carries something in it's saliva? Little tick's saliva? That gets into your system, through the blood and causes you to have an allergic reaction to red meat? Is the anything— I can't—I'm trying to think of what else to kinda equate this to. But I can't think of an example off the top of my head. (sucks breath) So, moving one to the last one. Mi— I mean— uhh. Mice that have a distinct subsystem for smell? That smells behavioral[ly] important odors as fear. I'm thinking that that one's— of the three— I kinda think that that one probably is the most likely to be true. You know, they find all kinds of cool things about mice. Mice are the classic test animal. But a distinct subsystem. Uhh, I'm not sure, that one seems to make a lot of sense to me in a certain way. Umm, Rebecca, you were talking about how mice are kinda fearful and skittish of everything and I think that actually plays into, uhh, why they may have a subsystem for it that they detect it. So, it's between, for me, multitasking or the tick bite and allergy. (sucks breath) Uhh, well, I don't like the two visual tasks having little effect. I don't know about that, I think you really gotta keep your eyes on the road, that's the bottom line. So, I'll say that that one's the fiction.

J: That a boy!

S: (drowsily) I'm sorry, which one?

E: The multitasking is the fiction.

S: I'm, I was doing something else.

(laughter)

S: Alright, Jay?

E: Ha, ha, ha.

J: I'm gonna go in reverse order. I absolutely think the one about the mice smelling fear— being wired to smell fear. Sure, that makes a lot of sense to me. I'm curious to know—

R: Seriously?

J: Yeah, just.

R: Just me?

J: Well, you know, I don't want to throw out the big pheromone thing. I mean it's like people throw that word around like, you know, it explains all these different things or whatever. But absolutely, you know, sure they could smell— you know, you were talking about the cat as a predator and all that and, sure, why wouldn't they be able to smell it. Smell things that the animal is putting off, whatever. Yeah, that makes sense. The one about the red meat caused by tick bites, the allergy situation. The only thing about that one I don't like is the word "delayed". Like a "delayed sever allergic reaction". Why would it be delayed? It's very strange. I hate ticks and I hate being bitten by ticks and I hate everything to do with them. And I think we should try to destroy all ticks and bedbugs. But anyway, I don't know about this one, I mean, what have I got to say other than it's weird and I hope that that one's the fiction. But the one that I didn't like from the moment that I heard it— that's why I went in reverse order— is this whole hoo-hah about combing visual tasks has little effect, that's BS. Combining visual tasks, meaning two different things you have to visually keep track of at the same time, that one is the fiction by far. Is the fiction. Thank-you.

S: Okay.

J: Thank-you.

S: Alright. So—

R: I'm alone in here? I can't believe I'm the only—like, uh!

S: (dryly) You're alone.

J: A-looone!

R: Immediately the mouse one.

S: You're alone. Jay, what about bed ticks? What do you feel about them?

J: Oh my God. Imagine if there were pen ticks! (laughs) Oh my God. No!

R: Dear Lord, no. Something new to be scared of.

E:

S: Alright. You all agree that scientists have identified a new syndrome, a delayed sever allergic reaction to red meat caused by a tick bite. You all think that one is science. And that one is (pauses)— science.

J: Uh, why is it delayed?

R: Yay!

J: Why delayed?

S: I don't know. But it's the first one. It's the first delayed anaphylactic, or severe allergic, reaction that has been identified.

E: Wow.

S: Uh, this is a study, really a case series, where they identified two patients that the same syndrome. They were all bitten by the lone star tick and had a—

R: How ironic, given the Lone Star Steakhouse.

S: Yeah. So the—

E: Ha, ha, ha. Sorry. I like that.

S: The tick has a specific carbohydrate that produces an immune response. The same carbohydrate is in the red meat, meat derived from mammals, so can produce a secondary or an anaphylactic severe allergic reaction. There are a couple of firsts here. This is the first identified anaphylactic reaction to a non-protein, to a carbohydrate. It's the first delayed reaction, 6-8 hours delayed after eating the meat. So, like you have a steak dinner and then in the middle of the night you wake up and can't breathe.

J: Yikes.

S: Yeah.

J: Ticks really suck.

S: Triggered by a tick bite! Yeah, that's cool. It's very interesting.

J: I mean, seriously—

S: Imagine how hard it is to make that diagnosis. But they're saying that if there are physicians in this part of the world, bits of the south-west, and patients present with an anaphylactic reaction after consuming red meat you should consider this newly identified syndrome. Very interesting. There are a lot of new things in there. Umm, let's go back to number 1: A new study shows that while multitasking a visual task with an audio task, such as driving while talking on the phone, significantly impairs performance, combining two visual tasks had little effect. Bob, Jay and Evan, you all think this one is the fiction.

S: And Rebecca—

E: (resignedly) Uhh.

S: (continues) You think this one is science.

R: No whammy, no whammy, no whammy.

E: This is it.

S: This one is—

E: I mean, this is it, right?

J: Oh—

S: (continues) The fiction!

E, B, J: (collective joyous moaning)

S: It was fiction! I suppose you could have thought that maybe, like, if you were integrating two visual into one, sort of, meta-visual task that wouldn't be multitasking but— no, no. Uhh, but no. It did in fact— the study showed that combining two visual tasks is even worse. Has more of a negative effect

S: (continues) That was the way to go with this one.

J: Thank you.

R: Ewwwh.

B: C'mon, it was obvious.

E: Wow. (cat noise)

S: They used eye tracking technology to see how the subjects were handling the tasks that they were given but also their performance on the task. And, yeah, when trying to combine two visual tasks their performance greatly suffered. The other interesting wrinkle here though is that when asked how they did, the people who were trying to multitask two visual tasks thought that they did better than when trying to multitask a visual and an audio task, even though they did worse. So they had a false sense of security, if you will, with the two visual tasks. So they were trying to model what would be worse, talking on the cell phone while driving or texting while driving. And definitely, texting while driving is much worse.

J: That's odd.

S: Kind of seems intuitive to me. I mean, you are visually distracted while trying to text.

R: Yeah, but, and you're using your fingers.

S: Yeah, although I don't—

S: I don't think that's the component though, the problem.

R: Really?

S: It's just the distraction. The diminishing of attention. You have to look away from the road to text. You brought up the previous data that shows that it's more distracting to talk on the phone than to someone who's sitting next to you in the car. We've brought this up before, you know, there's speculation about why that might be. There's the extra set of eyes, (do they) compensate for the distraction somewhat? My personal experience is that I find it really hard to talk on a cell phone, in that is takes a certain amount of concentration because the cell phone companies typically give just enough bandwidth so that human speech is recognizable. But not a lot more than that. So they are always restraining the bandwidth and I just find the audio quality, even as phones get better, the audio quality is really such that I really have to pay attention to understand what the person is saying over the cell phone.

R: Yeah.

S: Do you guys find that too?

J: No!

R: Yeah, I guess. I don't drive.

J: Ahhhh!

E: Yeah, that's right.

J: No, I don't agree with you.

S: And now we've got to use the the hands-free devices and some crappy ear phone, you're not even holding the phone up to your head. It's even harder.

J: What do you mean, it's harder?

E: It's harder. The voice, the sound quality is worse with the hands-free ear buds.

J: My head phones are epic. I have Bose headphones

Item number 1: A new study shows that while multitasking a visual task with an audio task, such as driving while talking on the phone, significantly impairs performance, combining two visual tasks had little effect. Item number 2: Scientists have identified a new syndrome - delayed severe allergic reaction to red meat caused by a tick bite. Item number 3: Researchers have found a distinct subsytem for smell in the mouse that is likely dedicated to smelling behaviorally important odors, such as fear.

Skeptical Quote of the Week (1:07:11)

Homeopaths do not have a physical brain, but merely 'skull water' with the memory of brains.

Robin Ince

References