SGU Episode 9

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SGU Episode 9
10th August 2005
(brief caption for the episode icon)
SGU 8                      SGU 10
Skeptical Rogues
S: Steven Novella
B: Bob Novella
E: Evan Bernstein
P: Perry DeAngelis
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Introduction

S: Hello and welcome to the Skeptics' Guide to the Universe. Today is August 10^th, 2005. This is your host, Steven Novella, president of the New England Skeptical Society and with me, again, tonight, are Perry DeAngelis...

P: Hello.

S: Bob Novella...

B: Hello.

S: and Evan Bernstein.

E: Salutations.

News Items

Bush on Intelligent Design (0:26)

S: So, our president is up to it again. In the last few days he made a comment, essentially saying that he endorses the teaching of Intelligent Design alongside evolution in public schools. Essentially, echoing the position of the intelligent design proponents to teach the controversy. That kids will be best served if they hear both sides of the issue and he also, in the same interview, professed his own personal belief that God created the world. I'm sure you guys have heard this–about this quite a bit in the past week.

B: Yeah. I've heard–I've heard a lot about it. That least piece I'm not too familiar. Wha–cause I carefully scrutinized his wording and it was a little ambiguous, ya know, teaching the controversy not specifically saying, "Lets put this in the science class side by side with evolution." And he probably believes that but he didn't say that. But what did he say about God creating the earth? Do you have a quote in front of you?

S: Yes. The quote is,

I personally believe God created the earth.

P: But wait a minute, has the president disavowed evolution? That's the question. The Catholic Church believes God created the earth. They also believe in evolution. Has the president disavowed evolution?

B: Catholics aren't creationists.

P: So what? That's still a key question. It's a key question. Does the president believe or does he not believe in evolution? It's a key question.

S: I have not seen or heard any quotes that he specifically says evolution doesn't happen.

P: Neither have I.

S: Your point is well taken that he could be a–a theological evolutionist.

P: Right.

S: There's a whole spectrum from young earth creationists who think that God created the world ten thousand years ago and no evolution of any kind occurred to sort of deistic evolutionists who believe, completely, that all life evolved over billions of years from just cells and proteins...

P: Right. Those...

S: primordial soup, but that God guided the process.

P: Even if the president does believe in evolution, even if he does, even if it's a theological question to him, this is still a serious problem in president Bush's makeup. The guy is–he's almost a religious zealot. It's a real problem.

S: It's a problem for the president of the free world. Yeah. Absolutely.

P: Abso–It absolutely is. And this is a tremendously dark spot on his record in my opinion.

S: I think it goes hand in hand with his stance against stem cell research and his faith based initiative. I mean this is clearly part of his overall agenda.

P: I hope the congress is going to bulldoze his stem cell legislation. I hope they're gonna bowl over it.

B: Guys, I heard a great quote. I heard a great–great quote.

9/11 was a faith based initiative.

S: (laughter)

P: Yeah.

E: (laughter)

S: Although not the kind of faith that Bush endorses.

P: Yeah. Another black hole. Faith based initiatives. I mean, they're an outrage. Separation of church and state. It's–Whenever the president and the government nears religion he veers off course.

S: Right.

P: He really veers off course. I mean, it's bad. It's bad.

S: And it's not only the violation of separation of church and state. Regardless of what you think about the religious aspects of intelligent designed, even if–the intelligent design proponents are often coy and saying that they're not talking about God it's just an intell–it's some kind of generic intelligent designer, they're careful to remove anything overtly religious from their writings. But, even if we give them a pass on that coyness it still is true that intelligent design is not a scientific theory. It's not a scientific theory because it cannot be tested. It's not testable. It's not falsifiable.

P: It's not science.

S: Yeah. The proponents don't do anything that even resembles actual science.

B: And that's the bottom line, right? It's not science.

S: So it does not. belong. in science. classrooms.

P: Right. Teach it in Sunday school. Not biology.

S: The one–The most compelling thing that the intelligent design people and Bush echoing their sentiments have to say is sort of teach the controversy, again I don't think that intelligent design should be taught as science in a science classroom, but I certainly endorse people knowing what intelligent design is not science and using it as an example of logical fallacies and of, sort of, pathological science. How could we do that without teaching intelligent design. Or without sort of violating the principle of separation of church and state? Pri–I–I would guess perhaps by teaching it more in a logic or philosophy class. Not a science class as science. So they're–that position sounds very reasonable, fair, and compelling. Really–unless you understand that it's not science, which, I think, your average person probably does not.

E: Right.

S: It's hard to see the flaw in that argument. So, I think that Bush is very–politically savvy enough to realize that his statements will probably be looked upon favorably by most Americans. Polls certainly indicate that.

E: And certainly his constituency.

S: And certainly the vast majority of his constituency, yes.

B: Has anyone–has any reporter done any follow up with this? Or has it just, pretty much, died right there and nothing futher. No one's brought this up saying, "Could you expand on this point?" Nobody's said anything, have they?

E: Nooo...

P: Even the democrats haven't picked it up.

S: Yeah. I really haven't heard a lot about it.

P: They're not–they haven't picked it up. They're not running with it. I think they think it's dangerous.

E: Right.

B: They could.

E: Well,

B: Well, they feel–yeah, they feel alienated enough from the religious part of their...

P: I really–I don't think. Their cost benefit analysis is not...

B: Right.

P: not favorable on this one.

E: That's right. They need to move on to other more productive things as far as they're concerned.

S: But on a–somewhat of a lighter note Bush's science adviser John Marburger III differed from the president. He wrote that intelligent design is not a scientific theory. Basically hitting the key point on the head.

P: Thank goodness.

S: I don't know what that means to White House policy but at least his science adviser understands the issue, at least as far as that statement is concerned.

P: Amen.

Science or Fiction (7:15)

VO: It's time to play Science OR Fiction.

Conclusion ()

S: The Skeptics' Guide to the Universe is a production of the New England Skeptical Society. For more information on this and other episodes see our website at www.theness.com.

References