SGU Episode 909

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SGU Episode 909
December 10th 2022
_brief_caption_for_the_episode_icon_
SGU 908                      SGU 910
Skeptical Rogues
S: Steven Novella
Quote of the Week
Quote
AUTHOR, _short_description_
Links
Download Podcast
Show Notes
Forum Discussion

Introduction

Voice-over: You're listening to the Skeptics' Guide to the Universe, your escape to reality.

What's the Word? ()

• Word_Topic_Concept

_consider_using_block_quotes_for_emails_read_aloud_in_this_segment_

Quickie with Bob ()

• [link_URL TITLE]

News Items

S:

B:

C:

J:

E:

(laughs) (laughter) (applause) [inaudible]

Square Kilometer Array ()

• [link_URL TITLE]

Mantle Plume on Mars ()

• [link_URL TITLE]

Swimming Dinosaurs ()

• [link_URL TITLE]

Ancient Environmental DNA ()

• [link_URL TITLE]

Cat Domestication ()

• [link_URL TITLE]

Who's That Noisy? ()

New Noisy ()

[_short_vague_description_of_Noisy]

short_text_from_transcript

Questions/Emails/Corrections/Follow-ups ()

_consider_using_block_quotes_for_emails_read_aloud_in_this_segment_
with_reduced_spacing_for_long_chunks –

Science or Fiction ()

Item #1: _item_text_from_show_notes_ Item #2: _item_text_from_show_notes_ Item #3: _item_text_from_show_notes_ Item #4: _item_text_from_show_notes_

Answer	Item
Fiction
Science

Host	Result
Steve

Rogue	Guess

Voice-over: It's time for Science or Fiction.

Steve Explains Item #_n_

5261.52 5268.16 S: Okay, guys, let's move on with science or fiction.

5268.16 5277.44 BN: It's time for science or fiction.

5277.44 5282.04 S: Each week I come up with three science news items, four facts, two real and one fake.

5282.04 5286.60 S: And then I ask my panel of skeptics to tell me which one is the fake.

5286.60 5290.56 S: Brian, you didn't tell us on the show what your profession is.

5290.56 5302.52 BN: Yeah, so I'm a video editor and producer at the National Geographic Society and working for a conservation group called Pristine Seas that's focused on ocean conservation.

5302.52 5306.40 BN: So basically I'm praying that the topic is not about the ocean.

5306.40 5308.68 BN: I really don't need to be embarrassed right now.

5308.68 5311.68 S: So you have no medical training at all?

5311.68 5312.68 S: No.

5312.68 5315.86 S: All right, there is a theme this week.

5315.86 5320.68 S: The theme is rare weird diseases.

5320.68 5325.72 S: These are diseases that you hopefully have never heard of that are kind of weird.

5325.72 5327.84 S: Okay, two of them are real.

5327.84 5329.64 S: One is fake.

5329.64 5331.00 S: Here we go.

5331.00 5340.68 S: Item number one, translucent fibrodysplasia is a genetic connective tissue disease in which the skin and connective tissue become progressively translucent over time.

5340.68 5344.80 S: In advanced cases, muscle can be seen through the skin.

5344.80 5361.32 S: Item number two, Alice in Wonderland syndrome includes an altered sense of body image where one's own body parts seem disproportionately large and may also include a sense of time passing either very slowly or rapidly.

5361.32 5373.64 S: And item number three, auto brewery syndrome results from bacteria or fungi in the GI system fermenting food into alcohol causing persistent intoxication.

5373.64 5377.44 S: All right, Brian, as our guest, you get to go first.

5377.44 5378.44 BN: Okay.

5378.44 5382.56 BN: These are very interesting and cool as advertised.

5382.56 5387.56 BN: I guess not fun for the people that may or may not have them.

5387.56 5389.88 BN: Translucent fibrodysplasia.

5389.88 5394.96 BN: Yeah, it sounds fairly plausible.

5394.96 5405.28 BN: You know, it feels like something that they would, you know, use as a starter for some kind of supervillain in a mutant movie or something, but it seems plausible.

5405.28 5410.20 BN: The one that's really tripping me up is this Alice in Wonderland syndrome.

5410.20 5419.36 BN: I just can't get over the fact that there's sort of two aspects of it that seem to both be relating back to Alice in Wonderland.

5419.36 5422.60 BN: That in itself just seems, because they seem disconnected.

5422.60 5433.08 BN: I mean, obviously they both have a sense of, you know, a disconnection or exaggeration of your senses, I guess.

5433.08 5434.80 BN: But that one's tripping me up.

5434.80 5441.40 BN: And then auto brewery syndrome, again, the name, it's like, is there people just having a laugh?

5441.40 5445.16 BN: Like this is, oh man.

5445.16 5452.64 BN: But that also, you know, yeah, I think that one seems, you know what, I'm going to go with the auto brewery syndrome.

5452.64 5456.32 BN: I think two is crazy.

5456.32 5459.46 BN: Alice in Wonderland is crazy enough to be true.

5459.46 5464.76 BN: And something about the auto brewery just seems almost too silly.

5464.76 5465.76 S: That's the fiction.

5465.76 5466.76 BN: Yeah.

5466.76 5467.76 BN: Auto brewery is the fiction.

5467.76 5468.76 S: All right.

5468.76 5469.76 B: Bob?

5469.76 5470.76 B: All right.

5470.76 5471.76 B: Let's see.

5471.76 5472.76 B: Translucent fibrodysplasia.

5472.76 5477.60 B: I think I knew somebody with this a long time ago in school.

5477.60 5481.00 B: I believe you might remember him as well.

5481.00 5485.60 B: And that kind of seems similar, although not identical.

5485.60 5487.96 B: But that's just not as bizarre as the other ones.

5487.96 5495.00 B: The Alice in Wonderland one, I think I would have heard of that, especially the time passing slowly or more rapidly.

5495.00 5504.64 B: But the one that makes, I think, the least sense, I think Brian hit it, the auto brewery on multiple levels, this doesn't seem quite right.

5504.64 5506.44 B: So I'm going to do another GWB.

5506.44 5508.16 S: Okay, Evan.

5508.16 5513.48 E: Oh, I have a feeling I'm going to follow this pattern.

5513.48 5521.24 E: I think the Alice in Wonderland syndrome, it's so kind of corny that this one has to be true in a way.

5521.24 5522.24 E: Right?

5522.24 5528.74 E: There's always one that's like beyond ridiculous that winds up being true among these kinds of things.

5528.74 5532.10 E: And that is some wild stuff going on there with that one.

5532.10 5538.00 E: But the auto brewery syndrome, first of all, the name's a little too contrived.

5538.00 5548.80 E: I mean, you know, brew seems like more of a beer specific kind of term as opposed to alcohol in general.

5548.80 5553.48 E: And you know, causing persistent intoxication.

5553.48 5558.12 E: I thought there were systems in the body that prevent that.

5558.12 5559.44 E: I don't know how that would be.

5559.44 5565.60 E: I can't see how that would physiologically be happening on a constant basis with the body.

5565.60 5569.52 E: It has various mechanisms to prevent that very thing, I think, from happening.

5569.52 5572.62 E: So that's why that one to me is the fiction.

5572.62 5583.32 J: And Jay, the Alice in Wonderland syndrome, you know, the idea here that people could have a weird, you know, weird idea about their body parts and everything.

5583.32 5591.16 J: I mean, I think that any mechanism that the brain has that works can go wrong.

5591.16 5598.96 J: And I know I know after, you know, because I'm related to a neurologist and have talked neurology with Steve for the last, I don't know, 30 years.

5598.96 5599.96 J: That doesn't seem weird to me.

5599.96 5608.04 J: I think, you know, the Alice in Wonderland thing is actually like, you know, something's gone wrong with the brain and they're not detecting their body parts the correct way.

5608.04 5612.68 J: That that's the one I think is is the most obviously correct.

5612.68 5615.80 J: And then I go to the auto brewery syndrome.

5615.80 5626.76 J: I've had a couple of things, a couple of G.I. things happen to me in my in my 50 plus years on this planet where I wouldn't be surprised that something like that could happen.

5626.76 5641.88 J: It doesn't mean I don't know how permanent it is or what it is, but, you know, we have such a huge amount of bacteria and there's a ton of bacteria out in the world and you get the wrong kind of bacteria in there and it does something wacky with your with your digestive system.

5641.88 5643.56 J: I could see that happening.

5643.56 5647.56 J: So I don't know anything about translucent fibrodysplasia.

5647.56 5648.56 J: I don't know.

5648.56 5649.56 J: I've never.

5649.56 5656.00 J: I remember what Bob was saying about someone in school growing up that had some type of skin disorder, but I don't know any details.

5656.00 5657.28 J: I don't know anything about it.

5657.28 5664.68 J: I just think it sounds it sounds like something I would have heard about unless it's unbelievably rare.

5664.68 5666.68 J: So I think that's the fake.

5666.68 5669.32 S: OK, Jay's struck out on his own.

5669.32 5673.48 S: So you guys all agree on number two.

5673.48 5675.12 S: So we'll start there.

5675.12 5689.12 S: Alice in Wonderland syndrome, AIWS, includes an altered sense of body image where one's own body parts seem disproportionately large and may also include a sense of time passing either very slowly or rapidly.

5689.12 5695.72 S: You guys all think this one is science and this one is science.

5695.72 5696.72 S: This is science.

5696.72 5698.76 E: You got me there for a second.

5698.76 5701.04 E: You got to make us with the fiction.

5701.04 5704.88 S: And yeah, it's whimsically called Alice in Wonderland syndrome.

5704.88 5710.40 S: The primary feature is the it is all tied together because it's altered perception.

5710.40 5711.40 S: Right.

5711.40 5712.92 S: And it's different types of perception, too.

5712.92 5717.20 S: There are different ways this can manifest, but it could be they could have hallucinations.

5717.20 5720.58 S: They can have auditory, tactile perception problems.

5720.58 5725.26 S: But the most common one is distorted body part images.

5725.26 5733.12 S: And it's usually they perceive them as being larger, although they can perceive them as being smaller in some cases, but it's usually larger.

5733.12 5738.32 S: And they also perceive the passage of time can also be massively warped.

5738.32 5742.88 S: They you know, they think everything is going in slow motion or time could seem to zip by.

5742.88 5745.96 S: But it's all perceptual processing.

5745.96 5749.40 S: That's that's the common thread through all of this.

5749.40 5753.62 E: And is there one specific part of the brain that sort of controls for that, Steve, or is it?

5753.62 5754.62 S: So yes and no.

5754.62 5759.08 S: I mean, this is not just one little piece of the brain networks in the brain that are doing it.

5759.08 5765.52 S: But it is in the the sensory association cortex.

5765.52 5767.96 S: Interestingly, like what causes this?

5767.96 5769.00 S: You know, what causes this to happen?

5769.00 5774.52 S: There is it can be caused by either tumors or seizures and migraines.

5774.52 5778.76 S: It actually has a commonly occurs with migraine.

5778.76 5782.84 S: And the treatment of it is to use migraine prophylaxis.

5782.84 5787.08 S: You just give drugs that we use to treat migraines and it can help it sometimes.

5787.08 5797.60 S: So the known causes are migraines, temporal lobe epilepsy, brain tumors, psychoactive drugs and Epstein Barr virus infections in the brain.

5797.60 5798.60 S: Interesting.

5798.60 5802.38 S: OK, let's I guess we'll go back to number one.

5802.38 5809.20 S: Translucent fibrodysplasia is a genetic connective tissue disease in which the skin and connective tissue become progressively translucent over time.

5809.20 5812.92 S: In advanced cases, muscle can be seen through the skin.

5812.92 5815.58 S: Jay, you think this one is the fiction.

5815.58 5817.92 S: Everyone else thinks this one is science.

5817.92 5821.88 S: And this one is the fiction.

5821.88 5824.24 S: Good job, Jay.

5824.24 5826.12 S: Nice solo win by Jay.

5826.12 5827.12 S: Way.

5827.12 5829.36 S: I just completely made this up.

5829.36 5830.52 E: That's a good one.

5830.52 5832.76 S: My thought process was I'm happy.

5832.76 5835.60 S: I'm happy to invent a fake disease, right?

5835.60 5836.60 S: Weird fake disease.

5836.60 5838.72 S: So I like maybe what could the disease be?

5838.72 5844.20 S: It's really hard when you think about it, because pretty much anything that can go wrong does.

5844.20 5848.08 S: And so it's hard to think of a plausible disease that doesn't exist at all.

5848.08 5852.72 S: So I thought, what if the skin turned a weird color?

5852.72 5854.56 S: And that was the disease.

5854.56 5864.64 S: It turns out there are diseases that turn the skin green, blue, red, orange, yellow, black, white and gray and purple and pink and pink.

5864.64 5873.56 S: I couldn't come up with one color of those colors that didn't have a disease associated with it, or at least like a pink rash or purple rash or whatever.

5873.56 5877.32 S: So I went with translucent.

5877.32 5879.06 S: That's where I got to that.

5879.06 5881.72 S: And I could not find that that exists anywhere in reality.

5881.72 5886.96 E: So well, if it one day does exist, then we can correct this science fiction.

5886.96 5890.08 BN: That's a fantastic name.

5890.08 5891.08 BN: You did a really good job.

5891.08 5892.08 BN: That sounds so believable.

5892.08 5893.08 E: Totally plausible.

5893.08 5895.40 S: That's that was the hook.

5895.40 5898.24 S: The name was the hook.

5898.24 5902.56 S: But that's you know, my medical background is easy to make up fake medical technology terminology.

5902.56 5903.56 S: All right.

5903.56 5912.72 S: That means that auto brewery syndrome results from bacteria or fungi in the G.I. system fermenting food into alcohol, causing persistent intoxication is science.

5912.72 5917.84 S: I almost didn't include this one because I thought it was too plausible.

5917.84 5920.28 S: Why wouldn't this not happen?

5920.28 5924.92 S: Bacteria, fungi, they ferment sugar into alcohol.

5924.92 5927.20 S: Why does that not happen in our intestines?

5927.20 5930.40 S: You know, and then the liver.

5930.40 5931.40 S: Yeah.

5931.40 5932.40 S: Fix that.

5932.40 5933.40 S: And then the liver detoxifies it.

5933.40 5938.62 S: That's why you're not permanently drunk, but you're constantly making alcohol out of the sugar in your gut.

5938.62 5939.62 S: Right.

5939.62 5940.68 S: As long as you have it there.

5940.68 5942.76 E: But you're saying it causes persistent intoxication.

5942.76 5943.76 E: Yeah.

5943.76 5944.76 S: I mean, as long as you eat.

5944.76 5955.82 S: Now, you can fix it by by having a special diet that doesn't include any food that the that the bacteria will will metabolize, will ferment.

5955.82 5961.44 S: So typically you have to like completely exclude simple sugars from your diet and certain other kinds of carbohydrates.

5961.44 5962.44 S: Yeah, not easy.

5962.44 5965.18 S: But if you did that, then it then it fixes it.

5965.18 5973.80 S: But it's remarkably hard to change the bacterial markup of your system.

5973.80 5975.52 S: That's the latest thing, Bob.

5975.52 5976.52 S: Yeah.

5976.52 5979.28 S: So but yeah, I thought this one was eminently plausible.

5979.28 5980.62 S: But but we're in the end.

5980.62 5982.20 S: And the name is why I used it.

5982.20 5983.20 S: The auto brewery syndrome.

5983.20 5984.20 S: Yeah, I couldn't get past that.

5984.20 5985.52 S: But that's what it's called.

5985.52 5986.52 S: That is what it's called.

5986.52 5989.60 S: There's usually whimsical names like that for all kinds of these bizarre diseases.

5989.60 5990.60 S: Yeah.

5990.60 5991.60 S: Auto brewery syndrome.

5991.60 5994.60 S: That has to do with beer.

5994.60 6000.36 BN: Yeah, I can imagine people that imagine they could create a new new craft beer from there.

6000.36 6007.56 S: Just have to isolate whatever it is in my intestines that are getting me hammered all the time.

6007.56 6008.56 S: Wow.

6008.56 6014.44 S: Yeah, it's like people insist they haven't had any alcohol to drink and yet they're drunk and they have a blood alcohol level.

6014.44 6017.08 S: Yeah, and then you got to like eliminate all sugar from your diet.

6017.08 6018.08 S: Good luck with that.

6018.08 6019.08 S: All right.

6019.08 6020.08 S: Good job, Jay.

6020.08 6022.28 S: I always love when people go out on their own and win.

6022.28 6023.76 J: You can't win if you don't play, Steve.

6023.76 6024.76 S: That's right.

6024.76 6025.76 S: You're right, brother.

6025.76 6026.76 S: All right.

Skeptical Quote of the Week ()

TEXT
– AUTHOR (YYYY-YYYY), _short_description_

6026.76 6028.92 E: Evan, give us a quote.

6028.92 6032.04 E: Scientific results are always preliminary.

6032.04 6037.36 E: No good scientist will believe that they have offered the last word on a given subject.

6037.36 6038.36 E: Brian Cox.

6038.36 6040.84 E: If I have to tell you who Brian Cox is, look him up.

6040.84 6041.84 E: You know him.

6041.84 6042.84 S: Look him up, Brian.

6042.84 6043.84 S: Yeah, that's good.

6043.84 6048.94 S: But that's, again, one of those quotes that it's true as far as it goes.

6048.94 6059.16 S: But there's a lot of discussion that you can have around that because that doesn't mean that we don't know something to such a degree that we can't act upon it.

6059.16 6060.16 S: Right.

6060.16 6062.68 S: So there's preliminary, then there's preliminary.

6062.68 6063.68 S: Right.

6063.68 6070.84 S: Like, yeah, this might be any scientific conclusion is always subject to revision when further evidence comes in.

6070.84 6076.28 S: But that doesn't mean we can't act as if it's true because we have overwhelming evidence.

6076.28 6078.92 S: You know, otherwise, like, how could you practice medicine?

6078.92 6079.92 S: Right.

6079.92 6080.92 S: Or do anything.

6080.92 6084.72 E: But is it appropriate for a scientist to declare it such?

6084.72 6089.64 S: Well, we say it depends on how careful you are with your verbiage.

6089.64 6090.64 S: Right.

6090.64 6098.64 S: We could say that this is, you know, rock solid or well established or established beyond reasonable doubt.

6098.64 6102.48 S: Or we can take this as a scientific given.

6102.48 6110.60 S: But that doesn't mean it's the last word because we can always get a deeper understanding of reality that changes it.

6110.60 6114.32 S: But usually that doesn't make it wrong.

6114.32 6116.68 S: It just means it just makes it incomplete.

6116.68 6117.68 S: Right.

6117.68 6119.76 S: Like, take something obvious.

6119.76 6124.12 S: The earth is a sphere that's never going to be proven wrong.

6124.12 6125.12 S: It's just going to be refined.

6125.12 6126.12 S: Right.

6126.12 6127.12 S: OK, it's a spheroid.

6127.12 6130.12 S: It's an oblate spheroid.

6130.12 6134.00 S: You know, it's it's a lopsided, oblate spheroid, whatever.

6134.00 6135.48 S: But it's still a sphere.

6135.48 6136.48 S: Right.

6136.48 6137.48 S: Right.

6137.48 6146.12 S: It's like even Newtonian mechanics wasn't rendered wrong by relativity, just, you know, incomplete.

6146.12 6147.12 S: Incomplete.

6147.12 6148.80 S: Yeah, it was as it's right.

6148.80 6154.12 S: As long as you're not traveling at relativistic speeds or parked next to a black hole or something.

6154.12 6155.12 S: That's an important caveat.

6155.12 6159.76 S: Like, you know, I mean, like DNA is the molecule of inheritance.

6159.76 6164.88 S: No later discovery is ever going to change that conclusion.

6164.88 6168.06 S: We can act as if that's 100 percent rock solid.

6168.06 6174.80 S: But that doesn't mean that there aren't nuances that we discover, like epigenetics and other things that modify it, et cetera.

6174.80 6181.16 S: But just the basic fact that like DNA is the primary molecule of inheritance is so well established.

6181.16 6183.20 S: I mean, nothing's going to overturn that.

6183.20 6186.92 S: So as long as you there's a lot of context to that to that quote.

6186.92 6192.72 S: So that's a kind of a complicated idea to try to put into one pithy quote.

6192.72 6198.00 S: It's again true as far as it goes, but it requires a lot of discussion to really put it into scientific context.

6198.00 6201.00 S: You know what I'm saying?

6201.00 6202.00 E: Yep.

6202.00 6203.00 S: We still love Brian Cox, though.

6203.00 6204.00 S: Yeah.

6204.00 6205.00 E: Yeah.

6205.00 6206.00 E: Good science.

6206.00 6207.00 E: What did he say after that?

6207.00 6210.24 S: Like, that's always like that's something else I would want to know.

6210.24 6212.68 S: Well, Brian, thank you for joining us on this episode.

6212.68 6213.68 S: It was a lot of fun.

6213.68 6214.68 BN: Yeah, man.

6214.68 6215.68 BN: Yeah.

6215.68 6216.68 BN: Yeah, no, thanks for having me.

6216.68 6217.68 S: It was a blast.

6217.68 6218.68 S: Appreciate it, Brian.

6218.68 6221.96 S: And from what you're saying, you're going to clean up all the plastic in the oceans, right?

6221.96 6225.52 S: That's what you're doing.

6225.52 6230.72 BN: We're focused on the marine protected area part of the problem.

6230.72 6235.68 BN: But yeah, plastics is just such a looming, awful threat.

6235.68 6236.68 BN: Totally.

6236.68 6238.16 BN: But yeah, we're working on it.

6238.16 6239.16 S: All right.

6239.16 6240.16 S: Well, good luck with that.

6240.16 6241.16 S: All right.

Signoff/Announcements ()

6241.16 6243.16 S: Well, thank you all for joining me this week.

6243.16 6244.16 S: You got it, Steve.

6244.16 6245.16 S: Sure, man.

6245.16 6246.16 S: Thanks, Steve.

6246.16 6252.80 S: I'm looking forward to seeing the rest of you and Kara and George and Ian in Arizona and all of our Arizona listeners.

6252.80 6255.36 S: It should be a fun trip.

S: —and until next week, this is your Skeptics' Guide to the Universe.

S: Skeptics' Guide to the Universe is produced by SGU Productions, dedicated to promoting science and critical thinking. For more information, visit us at theskepticsguide.org. Send your questions to info@theskepticsguide.org. And, if you would like to support the show and all the work that we do, go to patreon.com/SkepticsGuide and consider becoming a patron and becoming part of the SGU community. Our listeners and supporters are what make SGU possible.

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