https://www.sgutranscripts.org/w/api.php?action=feedcontributions&feedformat=atom&user=ReliefTwitcherSGUTranscripts - User contributions [en]2026-04-05T17:09:34ZUser contributionsMediaWiki 1.43.8https://www.sgutranscripts.org/w/index.php?title=SGU_Episode_691&diff=11426SGU Episode 6912018-10-12T10:57:34Z<p>ReliefTwitcher: </p>
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<br />
<br />
== Introduction ==<br />
''You're listening to the Skeptics' Guide to the Universe, your escape to reality.''<br />
<br />
== News Items ==<br />
=== Item 1 <small>()</small>===<br />
<br />
== Who's That Noisy? <small>()</small>==<br />
<br />
== Questions and Emails <small>()</small> ==<br />
=== Traumatic memory <small>(57:47)</small>===<br />
<br />
S: So we're gonna do one e-mail this week. This comes from Daniel Mangum from Tigard, Oregon--Oregon, er, T-I-G-A-R-D. TEE-gard? TIG-urd? TIG-ard?<br />
<br />
J: TIG-eeeard...<br />
<br />
E: Arrrrd, yes.<br />
<br />
S: I don't know how to pronounce that. He writes: "I got my SGU book today…yipppeee! I started reading and finished chapter 2 on memory. I know you guys avoid politics as much as possible, but would you consider talking about this subject in the context of the recent testimony by Dr. Blasey Ford and Judge Kavanaugh?"<br />
<br />
E: No.<br />
<br />
S: Uh, well, Daniel--<br />
<br />
E: No.<br />
<br />
S: Thanks for the positive comments about the book; this is the week the book launches, so we're getting a lot of people telling us about their experience reading the book; we appreciate it. So, yes, this is--while we do not try to get into political discussions, meaning talking about, like, promoting any particular partisan position or ideology, informing the science behind a politically important subject is exactly what we do, right? And so this is--this is interesting 'cause this is something that a lot of people are talking about in the last couple of weeks and most people have no idea what they're talking about, right?<br />
<br />
E: Right.<br />
<br />
S: And so they're going to then default to whatever their political opinion is, whereas I think what we should be doing is, regardless of what side of this issue we're on in terms of our partisan affiliations, we should try to get the science correct.<br />
<br />
S: So let's--let's try to do that. Let's just, you know, try to back up a little bit, take a deep breath and say, alright, what do we know? And the good news is is that a lot has been written about this over the years, so I can go back and read an article about how do--does emotional trauma affect memory, for example. That was written a year ago, or two years ago. And it's not about this case or biased about it, it's just saying, "Here's what the literature shows," right? <br />
<br />
S: As you might imagine, this is a complicated question. But this is the gist of what the research says so far: so, there's a lot of--first of all, there's a lot of context that we could talk about and there's a lot of different types of memory that we could talk about. Memory itself is a complicated thing. Let me hit the highlights that I think would be relevant in trying to understand this kind of case.<br />
<br />
S: If you've been living under a rock, you know Dr. Blasey Ford has accused Judge Kavanaugh, who is Donald Trump's nominee for the Supreme Court, that, when they were in high school, when he was 17 and she was 15, at a party, he got drunk, he and his friend, whose name is Judge, right? Mark Judge, Mike Judge, uh...were in--they took her to a bedroom and Bret Kavanaugh sexually assaulted her, tried to rape her, but she was able to escape, you know, before there was any actual rape. But he did sexually assault her. Of course, this is 36 years ago, yeah, and Dr. Blasey Ford says she's 100 percent certain that this happened and that it was Bret Kavanaugh who did it; Bret Kavanaugh says he's 100 percent certain that he didn't do it; that this event never happened.<br />
<br />
E: And that he also says we was not at the said party. <br />
<br />
S: That's, that's a more complicated bit because, uh, Ford--<br />
<br />
E: That's his claim.<br />
<br />
S: Well, yeah, but what party, right? The thing is--yeah, he's saying--did he say that he was never at any party with Ford?<br />
<br />
E: Uh, no he didn't say...I don't know if he's saying that.<br />
<br />
S: So, here's the thing: so Ford says--is able to recall certain details about this evening. Uh, she--there's, like, random details about the house and what happened. She says that, while this was happening, the two guys were laughing and their laughter's burned into her memory. But she's not exactly sure where the house was or what day it was that this happened and she's not quite sure how she got home, for example. But she is sure about some details. And so this has sparked the discussion: what is the significance of her memory--her partial memory of this event? Does this call into question the credibility of her memory, or of her sincerity, of her veracity?<br />
<br />
S: Okay, what do we know about memory in general and memory that results from an emotionally traumatic event, specifically, right? So, memories in general, we know, again, if you read the book, our chapter in the book on this, memories are terrible. <br />
<br />
E: Oh, yeah.<br />
<br />
S: From the moment they're created, they're a partial narrative about happened. We select what information gets through. You know, this is all usually subconscious. It's filtered; it's biased by our expectations and our perceptions and what we already think is going on. You know, we have sort of a narrative about what we believe happened; that becomes our memory and then, over time, that memory morphs. It could morph with other memories; you can fuse details, you can switch details; you can switch the perspective. A third-person memory can become a first-person memory, et cetera.<br />
<br />
S: But: there is some research on the effects of emotionally charged events on memory. And what they show is that high emotion tends to increase memory. But usually only if it's a negative emotion. So, negative emotions have, uh, enhanced memory. But the evidence suggests they have what's called focal memory enhancement. And what that means is that some details are enhanced while others are not. And that is--<br />
<br />
E: That's complex. Oh my gosh.<br />
<br />
S: It's complicated, but--so what ends up happening is--and, of course, you know, for example, women who have been sexually assaulted, raped, or whatever, anything that would be, you know, a violent encounter like that, they tend to have these vivid, stable, clear memories of specific details. And, really, they weren't processing and don't really remember, or their memories just fade for other details. They fade or morph, or whatever. And so you end up with this patchy kind of memory. "Oh, I distinctly remember what music was playing, but I don't know where we were." You know, that's a very typical feature of a negative--emotionally negative traumatic memory. That's what the research shows.<br />
<br />
S: But there's also another phenomenon which has been demonstrated, and that's called memory enhancement. And what happens is, as people remember emotionally traumatic events, they may--their memory may alter to enhance the emotional significance of the event. This is worsened--uh, this effect is increased if you try to visualize, like if you force yourself to remember, or to re-live the event, or to visualize it. So, it's something that very easily can happen in therapy, for example. <br />
<br />
S: My takeaway from all of this is that Dr. Ford's memory is actually completely compatible with the research on what the memory of that type of event would be like. Certain details are vivid; certain details are burned into her memory; she reports other details are lost or foggy or faded. That's typical. The fact that she doesn't remember those things does not call into question the veracity of her memory. It's not incompatible with a traumatic memory; it's actually completely typical of it.<br />
<br />
S: However, the research also suggests that there may be details of her memory that are not accurate because they may have been enhanced over the years. As she remembers it, more details that support the theme and the emotional content of the memory may have been mixed in. What I would say is, you know, I would totally believe that, maybe she remembers it as being worse than it was, because that's what tends to happen is these memories can get worse over time. That's actually--a lot of that is discussed in the literature on post-traumatic stress disorder, right? And the idea there is that PTSD--you know, people with PTSD can actually make their symptoms worse by remembering the event over time and, actually, the memory becomes more traumatic than the event itself because the memory gets enhanced and they need to try to work against that.<br />
<br />
S: So, you know, I think that Ford's therapist would have probably a lot better idea of which of these processes were at work or, like, how plausible is it that, like, how much has she been dwelling on this over the years? How much has she had therapy where she's had to re-live it or recount it, or et cetera? That's always why contemporaneous accounts are always so valuable, because anything that locks in details at the time they happened, we know that they haven't drifted or enhanced over the--been enhanced over the years.<br />
<br />
S: So, that could explain--you know, the other thing is people are trying to say, "Is it possible they're both telling the truth here?" Well, you know, I'm not gonna try to make those kind of judgments, and people are going to have strong feelings about this one way or the other. But is it possible that Kavanaugh did something that--I mean, it's hard to imagine that she didn't have a traumatic experience, right? And I think that some details like "Who was the person assaulting her" is something that she would remember. Right? So those are probably details that are accurate. But maybe it wasn't as bad as she remembers? Not to minimize what happened but, just in, in other words, it's possible that Kavanaugh's memory of it is like, "Oh, it wasn't that bad," and her memory of it was that it was really bad and the truth is somewhere in the middle. You know what I mean? He might have--his memory may have minimized it over the years, or may in fact not remember, although he vehemently denies ever blacking out. You know, that's a separate issue that, you know, that is being explored in the media, but, you know, if we're just saying "What are the possibilities here?" It's possible that he sort of whitewashed the memory over the years, or he just doesn't remember all of it or parts of it and it's possible that her memory's accurate; it's also possible her memory's been enhanced, and that may explain why they're far apart, right? <br />
<br />
S: But, having said all that, there's no reason--the details of her memory give us no reason to be suspicious of her sincerity. Let me say that. You can't say, "Oh, if this were a real memory, she would not forget those details." That's wrong. That, we can say is flat-out wrong. Uh, remembering some details vividly and forgetting others is absolutely typical. But, obviously, there's a huge range of possibilities within what we know from research about the way memory works specifically for traumatic events. So, of course, within that wiggle room, you know, people could place themselves along the continuum wherever they want, in alignment with their partisan proclivities.<br />
<br />
E: As a side note to all that, this has been a opportunity--I kind of hate to use that word--for people to learn more about memory overall, and a lot of misconceptions and--<br />
<br />
S: Yeah, ideally, these events would be just that, Evan, opportunities to learn, you know, objectively, about things like memory and traumatic events, et cetera. But, unfortunately, I think people take their corners, you know. Our experience is that highly charged controversies are not a good time to teach people stuff because they're not really open to being taught; they're very defensive. <br />
<br />
E: Yes, everyone's getting in their trenches. <br />
<br />
S: Yeah, in general, we say it's better to engage people and teach them on topics that they're not emotional about because they'll be better able to learn and to understand and to process it. But they reason why I think it's important for us to talk about this is because we're not only teaching about memory in the abstract; we're trying to model how to respond to these controversial events, and I think that one way to do that is to try to back up; to try to be objective, and to be aware of your bias and your partisanship and your ideology and say, "Alright, I'm gonna sort of step out of it and not let that influence me and try to look objectively at what the evidence actually says and what the experts actually say, rather than just taking a side and, you know, making a lawyer's case for that side," which is what most people are doing. It's hard, though, it's hard.<br />
<br />
E: Very hard.<br />
<br />
S: But I think it's important to try. And, you know, again, I'm trying not to get political, but I to think that we need to, at times--<br />
<br />
E: Too late!<br />
<br />
S: Well, there are political implications of critical thinking, right? I think that being reasonable, rational, and critical thinking is especially important at times like this. And that means that there has to be a rational conversation to have in the middle where we find common ground. And when you go to the extremes and you justify that in whatever way you justify it, you know, even if it is justified, I think you have to make even all the more of an effort to say, "Okay, a reasonable person would be angry or defensive, or whatever in this situation, but I'm going to try to rise above it and maintain some kind of objective, you know, reasonableness" because, if we don't, then we lose our ability to function. You know, and I think that's--I've read a lot about this and I think the one common thread in discussion of this which I agree with is like the one thing--this is a muddy mess, but the one thing we can all agree on is how dysfunctional the whole process is.<br />
<br />
J: Sure. Yeah.<br />
<br />
E: I agree.<br />
<br />
S: But I think that, how do we get out of it, then? How do you get out of the dysfunction? By just saying, "Okay, we gotta find some common ground in the middle," and facts are the common ground. Which is why this whole "post-fact" thing is so upsetting, because, without facts, we have no common ground, and then we can't--that's when the system is broken. We need to be able to at least agree on some kind of basic shared reality. Right? Otherwise, there is no common ground; there's no hope for any workable process. <br />
<br />
== Science or Fiction <small>()</small> ==<br />
<br />
== Skeptical Quote of the Week <small>()</small> ==<br />
<blockquote>The biggest gift of science is teaching us how to free our mind. So stay skeptical, be curious, and ask questions. - Vince Ebert (German entertainer and science communicator)<br />
</blockquote><br />
<br />
== Announcements <small>()</small> ==<br />
<br />
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episodes 289 & 290 use the same text as 291-300, but are voiced by Steve<br />
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== References ==<br />
<references/><br />
<br />
{{Navigation}} <!-- inserts images that link to the previous and next episode pages --><br />
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}}</div>ReliefTwitcherhttps://www.sgutranscripts.org/w/index.php?title=SGU_Episode_691&diff=11425SGU Episode 6912018-10-12T02:59:31Z<p>ReliefTwitcher: </p>
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|episodeDate = 6<sup>th</sup> October 2018 <!-- broadcast date --><br />
|episodeIcon = File:LogoSGU.png <!-- use "File:" and file name for image on show notes page--><br />
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|guest1 = <!-- leave blank if no guest --><br />
|guest2 = <!-- leave blank if no second guest --><br />
|guest3 = <!-- leave blank if no third guest --><br />
|downloadLink = http://media.libsyn.com/media/skepticsguide/skepticast2018-10-06.mp3<br />
|forumLink = https://sguforums.com/index.php/topic,50681.0.html<br />
|qowText = 'The biggest gift of science is teaching us how to free our mind. So stay skeptical, be curious, and ask questions.' <!-- add quote of the week text--><br />
|qowAuthor = Vince Ebert (German entertainer and science communicator) <!-- add author and link --><br />
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<br />
<br />
== Introduction ==<br />
''You're listening to the Skeptics' Guide to the Universe, your escape to reality.''<br />
<br />
== News Items ==<br />
=== Item 1 <small>()</small>===<br />
<br />
== Who's That Noisy? <small>()</small>==<br />
<br />
== Questions and Emails <small>()</small> ==<br />
=== Traumatic memory <small>(57:47)</small>===<br />
<br />
S: So we're gonna do one e-mail this week. This comes from Daniel Mangum from Tigard, Oregon--Oregon, er, T-I-G-A-R-D. TEE-gard? TIG-urd? TIG-ard?<br />
<br />
J: TIG-eeeard...<br />
<br />
E: Arrrrd, yes.<br />
<br />
S: I don't know how to pronounce that. He writes: "I got my SGU book today…yipppeee! I started reading and finished chapter 2 on memory. I know you guys avoid politics as much as possible, but would you consider talking about this subject in the context of the recent testimony by Dr. Blasey Ford and Judge Kavanaugh?"<br />
<br />
E: No.<br />
<br />
S: Uh, well, Daniel--<br />
<br />
E: No.<br />
<br />
S: Thanks for the positive comments about the book; this is the week the book launches, so we're getting a lot of people telling us about their experience reading the book; we appreciate it. So, yes, this is--while we do not try to get into political discussions, meaning talking about, like, promoting any particular partisan position or ideology, informing the science behind a politically important subject is exactly what we do, right? And so this is--this is interesting 'cause this is something that a lot of people are talking about in the last couple of weeks and most people have no idea what they're talking about, right?<br />
<br />
E: Right.<br />
<br />
S: And so they're going to then default to whatever their political opinion is, whereas I think what we should be doing is, regardless of what side of this issue we're on in terms of our partisan affiliations, we should try to get the science correct.<br />
<br />
S: So let's--let's try to do that. Let's just, you know, try to back up a little bit, take a deep breath and say, alright, what do we know? And the good news is is that a lot has been written about this over the years, so I can go back and read an article about how do--does emotional trauma affect memory, for example. That was written a year ago, or two years ago. And it's not about this case or biased about it, it's just saying, "Here's what the literature shows," right? <br />
<br />
S: As you might imagine, this is a complicated question. But this is the gist of what the research says so far: so, there's a lot of--first of all, there's a lot of context that we could talk about and there's a lot of different types of memory that we could talk about. Memory itself is a complicated thing. Let me hit the highlights that I think would be relevant in trying to understand this kind of case.<br />
<br />
S: If you've been living under a rock, you know Dr. Blasey Ford has accused Judge Kavanaugh, who is Donald Trump's nominee for the Supreme Court, that, when they were in high school, when he was 17 and she was 15, at a party, he got drunk, he and his friend, whose name is Judge, right? Mark Judge, Mike Judge, uh...were in--they took her to a bedroom and Bret Kavanaugh sexually assaulted her, tried to rape her, but she was able to escape, you know, before there was any actual rape. But he did sexually assault her. Of course, this is 36 years ago, yeah, and Dr. Blasey Ford says she's 100 percent certain that this happened and that it was Bret Kavanaugh who did it; Bret Kavanaugh says he's 100 percent certain that he didn't do it; that this event never happened.<br />
<br />
E: And that he also says we was not at the said party. <br />
<br />
S: That's, that's a more complicated bit because, uh, Ford--<br />
<br />
E: That's his claim.<br />
<br />
S: Well, yeah, but what party, right? The thing is--yeah, he's saying--did he say that he was never at any party with Ford?<br />
<br />
E: Uh, no he didn't say...I don't know if he's saying that.<br />
<br />
S: So, here's the thing: so Ford says--is able to recall certain details about this evening. Uh, she--there's, like, random details about the house and what happened. She says that, while this was happening, the two guys were laughing and their laughter's burned into her memory. But she's not exactly sure where the house was or what day it was that this happened and she's not quite sure how she got home, for example. But she is sure about some details. And so this has sparked the discussion: what is the significance of her memory--her partial memory of this event? Does this call into question the credibility of her memory, or of her sincerity, of her veracity?<br />
<br />
S: Okay, what do we know about memory in general and memory that results from an emotionally traumatic event, specifically, right? So, memories in general, we know, again, if you read the book, our chapter in the book on this, memories are terrible. <br />
<br />
E: Oh, yeah.<br />
<br />
S: From the moment they're created, they're a partial narrative about happened. We select what information gets through. You know, this is all usually subconscious. It's filtered; it's biased by our expectations and our perceptions and what we already think is going on. You know, we have sort of a narrative about what we believe happened; that becomes our memory and then, over time, that memory morphs. It could morph with other memories; you can fuse details, you can switch details; you can switch the perspective. A third-person memory can become a first-person memory, et cetera.<br />
<br />
S: But: there is some research on the effects of emotionally charged events on memory. And what they show is that high emotion tends to increase memory. But usually only if it's a negative emotion. So, negative emotions have, uh, enhanced memory. But the evidence suggests they have what's called focal memory enhancement. And what that means is that some details are enhanced while others are not. And that is--<br />
<br />
E: That's complex. Oh my gosh.<br />
<br />
S: It's complicated, but--so what ends up happening is--and, of course, you know, for example, women who have been sexually assaulted, raped, or whatever, anything that would be, you know, a violent encounter like that, they tend to have these vivid, stable, clear memories of specific details. And, really, they weren't processing and don't really remember, or their memories just fade for other details. They fade or morph, or whatever. And so you end up with this patchy kind of memory. "Oh, I distinctly remember what music was playing, but I don't know where we were." You know, that's a very typical feature of a negative--emotionally negative traumatic memory. That's what the research shows.<br />
<br />
S: But there's also another phenomenon which has been demonstrated, and that's called memory enhancement. And what happens is, as people remember emotionally traumatic events, they may--their memory may alter to enhance the emotional significance of the event. This is worsened--uh, this effect is increased if you try to visualize, like if you force yourself to remember, or to re-live the event, or to visualize it. So, it's something that very easily can happen in therapy, for example. <br />
<br />
S: My takeaway from all of this is that Dr. Ford's memory is actually completely compatible with the research on what the memory of that type of event would be like. Certain details are vivid; certain details are burned into her memory; she reports other details are lost or foggy or faded. That's typical. The fact that she doesn't remember those things does not call into question the veracity of her memory. It's not incompatible with a traumatic memory; it's actually completely typical of it.<br />
<br />
S: However, the research also suggests that there may be details of her memory that are not accurate because they may have been enhanced over the years. As she remembers it, more details that support the theme and the emotional content of the memory may have been mixed in. What I would say is, you know, I would totally believe that, maybe she remembers it as being worse than it was, because that's what tends to happen is these memories can get worse over time. That's actually--a lot of that is discussed in the literature on post-traumatic stress disorder, right? And the idea there is that PTSD--you know, people with PTSD can actually make their symptoms worse by remembering the event over time and, actually, the memory becomes more traumatic than the event itself because the memory gets enhanced and they need to try to work against that.<br />
<br />
S: So, you know, I think that Ford's therapist would have probably a lot better idea of which of these processes were at work or, like, how plausible is it that, like, how much has she been dwelling on this over the years? How much has she had therapy where she's had to re-live it or recount it, or et cetera? That's always why contemporaneous accounts are always so valuable, because anything that locks in details at the time they happened, we know that they haven't drifted or enhanced over the--been enhanced over the years.<br />
<br />
S: So, that could explain--you know, the other thing is people are trying to say, "Is it possible they're both telling the truth here?" Well, you know, I'm not gonna try to make those kind of judgments, and people are going to have strong feelings about this one way or the other. But is it possible that Kavanaugh did something that--I mean, it's hard to imagine that she didn't have a traumatic experience, right? And I think that some details like "Who was the person assaulting her" is something that she would remember. Right? So those are probably details that are accurate. But maybe it wasn't as bad as she remembers? Not to minimize what happened but, just in, in other words, it's possible that Kavanaugh's memory of it is like, "Oh, it wasn't that bad," and her memory of it was that it was really bad and the truth is somewhere in the middle. You know what I mean? He might have--his memory may have minimized it over the years, or may in fact not remember, although he vehemently denies ever blacking out. You know, that's a separate issue that, you know, that is being explored in the media, but, you know, if we're just saying "What are the possibilities here?" It's possible that he sort of whitewashed the memory over the years, or he just doesn't remember all of it or parts of it and it's possible that her memory's accurate; it's also possible her memory's been enhanced, and thay may explain why they're far apart, right? <br />
<br />
S: But, having said all that, there's no reason--the details of her memory give us no reason to be suspicious of her sincerity. Let me say that. You can't say, "Oh, if this were a real memory, she would not forget those details." That's wrong. That, we can say is flat-out wrong. Uh, remembering some details vividly and forgetting others is absolutely typical. But, obviously, there's a huge range of possibilities within what we know from research about the way memory works specifically for traumatic events. So, of course, within that wiggle room, you know, people could place themselves along the continuum wherever they want, in alignment with their partisan proclivities.<br />
<br />
E: As a side note to all that, this has been a opportunity--I kind of hate to use that word--for people to learn more about memory overall, and a lot of misconceptions and--<br />
<br />
S: Yeah, ideally, these events would be just that, Evan, opportunities to learn, you know, objectively, about things like memory and traumatic events, et cetera. But, unfortunately, I think people take their corners, you know. Our experience is that highly charged controversies are not a good time to teach people stuff because they're not really open to being taught; they're very defensive. <br />
<br />
E: Yes, everyone's getting in their trenches. <br />
<br />
S: Yeah, in general, we say it's better to engage people and teach them on topics that they're not emotional about because they'll be better able to learn and to understand and to process it. But they reason why I think it's important for us to talk about this is because we're not only teaching about memory in the abstract; we're trying to model how to respond to these controversial events, and I think that one way to do that is to try to back up; to try to be objective, and to be aware of your bias and your partisanship and your ideology and say, "Alright, I'm gonna sort of step out of it and not let that influence me and try to look objectively at what the evidence actually says and what the experts actually say, rather than just taking a side and, you know, making a lawyer's case for that side," which is what most people are doing. It's hard, though, it's hard.<br />
<br />
E: Very hard.<br />
<br />
S: But I think it's important to try. And, you know, again, I'm trying not to get political, but I to think that we need to, at times--<br />
<br />
E: Too late!<br />
<br />
S: Well, there are political implications of critical thinking, right? I think that being reasonable, rational, and critical thinking is especially important at times like this. And that means that there has to be a rational conversation to have in the middle where we find common ground. And when you go to the extremes and you justify that in whatever way you justify it, you know, even if it is justified, I think you have to make even all the more of an effort to say, "Okay, a reasonable person would be angry or defensive, or whatever in this situation, but I'm going to try to rise above it and maintain some kind of objective, you know, reasonableness" because, if we don't, then we lose our ability to function. You know, and I think that's--I've read a lot about this and I think the one common thread in discussion of this which I agree with is like the one thing--this is a muddy mess, but the one thing we can all agree on is how dysfunctional the whole process is.<br />
<br />
J: Sure. Yeah.<br />
<br />
E: I agree.<br />
<br />
S: But I think that, how do we get out of it, then? How do you get out of the dysfunction? By just saying, "Okay, we gotta find some common ground in the middle," and facts are the common ground. Which is why this whole "post-fact" thing is so upsetting, because, without facts, we have no common ground, and then we can't--that's when the system is broken. We need to be able to at least agree on some kind of basic shared reality. Right? Otherwise, there is no common ground; there's no hope for any workable process. <br />
<br />
== Science or Fiction <small>()</small> ==<br />
<br />
== Skeptical Quote of the Week <small>()</small> ==<br />
<blockquote>The biggest gift of science is teaching us how to free our mind. So stay skeptical, be curious, and ask questions. - Vince Ebert (German entertainer and science communicator)<br />
</blockquote><br />
<br />
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<br />
<br />
{{Outro404}} <!-- inserts the template containing the voiceover outro (including links) for episodes 404 onwards. For older episodes use:<br />
{{Outro1}} - episodes 301-403 (inclusive)<br />
{{Outro291}} - episodes 291-300 (inclusive)<br />
episodes 289 & 290 use the same text as 291-300, but are voiced by Steve<br />
{{Outro119}} - episodes 119-288 (inclusive)<br />
{{Outro61}} - episodes 61-118 (inclusive)<br />
{{Outro39}} - episodes 39-60 (inclusive)<br />
{{Outro30}} - episodes 30-38 (inclusive)<br />
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--><br />
<br />
== References ==<br />
<references/><br />
<br />
{{Navigation}} <!-- inserts images that link to the previous and next episode pages --><br />
{{Page categories<br />
|Neuroscience & Psychology = y <!-- Traumatic memory (691) --><br />
}}</div>ReliefTwitcherhttps://www.sgutranscripts.org/w/index.php?title=SGU_Episode_691&diff=11424SGU Episode 6912018-10-12T02:58:18Z<p>ReliefTwitcher: </p>
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<br />
<br />
== Introduction ==<br />
''You're listening to the Skeptics' Guide to the Universe, your escape to reality.''<br />
<br />
== News Items ==<br />
=== Item 1 <small>()</small>===<br />
<br />
== Who's That Noisy? <small>()</small>==<br />
<br />
== Questions and Emails <small>()</small> ==<br />
=== Traumatic memory <small>(57:47)</small>===<br />
<br />
S: So we're gonna do one e-mail this week. This comes from Daniel Mangum from Tigard, Oregon--Oregon, er, T-I-G-A-R-D. TEE-gard? TIG-urd? TIG-ard?<br />
<br />
J: TIG-eeeard...<br />
<br />
E: Arrrrd, yes.<br />
<br />
S: I don't know how to pronounce that. He writes: "I got my SGU book today…yipppeee! I started reading and finished chapter 2 on memory. I know you guys avoid politics as much as possible, but would you consider talking about this subject in the context of the recent testimony by Dr. Blasey Ford and Judge Kavanaugh?"<br />
<br />
E: No.<br />
<br />
S: Uh, well, Daniel--<br />
<br />
E: No.<br />
<br />
S: Thanks for the positive comments about the book; this is the week the book launches, so we're getting a lot of people telling us about their experience reading the book; we appreciate it. So, yes, this is--while we do not try to get into political discussions, meaning talking about, like, promoting any particular partisan position or ideology, informing the science behind a politically important subject is exactly what we do, right? And so this is--this is interesting 'cause this is something that a lot of people are talking about in the last couple of weeks and most people have no idea what they're talking about, right?<br />
<br />
E: Right.<br />
<br />
S: And so they're going to then default to whatever their political opinion is, whereas I think what we should be doing is, regardless of what side of this issue we're on in terms of our partisan affiliations, we should try to get the science correct.<br />
<br />
S: So let's--let's try to do that. Let's just, you know, try to back up a little bit, take a deep breath and say, alright, what do we know? And the good news is is that a lot has been written about this over the years, so I can go back and read an article about how do--does emotional trauma affect memory, for example. That was written a year ago, or two years ago. And it's not about this case or biased about it, it's just saying, "Here's what the literature shows," right? <br />
<br />
S: As you might imagine, this is a complicated question. But this is the gist of what the research says so far: so, there's a lot of--first of all, there's a lot of context that we could talk about and there's a lot of different types of memory that we could talk about. Memory itself is a complicated thing. Let me hit the highlights that I think would be relevant in trying to understand this kind of case.<br />
<br />
S: If you've been living under a rock, you know Dr. Blasey Ford has accused Judge Kavanaugh, who is Donald Trump's nominee for the Supreme Court, that, when they were in high school, when he was 17 and she was 15, at a party, he got drunk, he and his friend, whose name is Judge, right? Mark Judge, Mike Judge, uh...were in--they took her to a bedroom and Bret Kavanaugh sexually assaulted her, tried to rape her, but she was able to escape, you know, before there was any actual rape. But he did sexually assault her. Of course, this is 36 years ago, yeah, and Dr. Blasey Ford says she's 100 percent certain that this happened and that it was Bret Kavanaugh who did it; Bret Kavanaugh says he's 100 percent certain that he didn't do it; that this event never happened.<br />
<br />
E: And that he also says we was not at the said party. <br />
<br />
S: That's, that's a more complicated bit because, uh, Ford--<br />
<br />
E: That's his claim.<br />
<br />
S: Well, yeah, but what party, right? The thing is--yeah, he's saying--did he say that he was never at any party with Ford?<br />
<br />
E: Uh, no he didn't say...I don't know if he's saying that.<br />
<br />
S: So, here's the thing: so Ford says--is able to recall certain details about this evening. Uh, she--there's, like, random details about the house and what happened. She says that, while this was happening, the two guys were laughing and their laughter's burned into her memory. But she's not exactly sure where the house was or what day it was that this happened and she's not quite sure how she got home, for example. But she is sure about some details. And so this has sparked the discussion: what is the significance of her memory--her partial memory of this event? Does this call into question the credibility of her memory, or of her sincerity, of her veracity?<br />
<br />
S: Okay, what do we know about memory in general and memory that results from an emotionally traumatic event, specifically, right? So, memories in general, we know, again, if you read the book, our chapter in the book on this, memories are terrible. <br />
<br />
E: Oh, yeah.<br />
<br />
S: From the moment they're created, they're a partial narrative about happened. We select what information gets through. You know, this is all usually subconscious. It's filtered; it's biased by our expectations and our perceptions and what we already think is going on. You know, we have sort of a narrative about what we believe happened; that becomes our memory and then, over time, that memory morphs. It could morph with other memories; you can fuse details, you can switch details; you can switch the perspective. A third-person memory can become a first-person memory, et cetera.<br />
<br />
S: But: there is some research on the effects of emotionally charged events on memory. And what they show is that high emotion tends to increase memory. But usually only if it's a negative emotion. So, negative emotions have, uh, enhanced memory. But the evidence suggests they have what's called focal memory enhancement. And what that means is that some details are enhanced while others are not. And that is--<br />
<br />
E: That's complex. Oh my gosh.<br />
<br />
S: It's complicated, but--so what ends up happening is--and, of course, you know, for example, women who have been sexually assaulted, raped, or whatever, anything that would be, you know, a violent encounter like that, they tend to have these vivid, stable, clear memories of specific details. And, really, they weren't processing and don't really remember, or their memories just fade for other details. They fade or morph, or whatever. And so you end up with this patchy kind of memory. "Oh, I distinctly remember what music was playing, but I don't know where we were." You know, that's a very typical feature of a negative--emotionally negative traumatic memory. That's what the research shows.<br />
<br />
S: But there's also another phenomenon which has been demonstrated, and that's called memory enhancement. And what happens is, as people remember emotionally traumatic events, they may--their memory may alter to enhance the emotional significance of the event. This is worsened--uh, this effect is increased if you try to visualize, like if you force yourself to remember, or to re-live the event, or to visualize it. So, it's something that very easily can happen in therapy, for example. <br />
<br />
S: My takeaway from all of this is that Dr. Ford's memory is actually completely compatible with the research on what the memory of that type of event would be like. Certain details are vivid; certain details are burned into her memory; she reports other details are lost or foggy or faded. That's typical. The fact that she doesn't remember those things does not call into question the veracity of her memory. It's not incompatible with a traumatic memory; it's actually completely typical of it.<br />
<br />
S: However, the research also suggests that there may be details of her memory that are not accurate because they may have been enhanced over the years. As she remembers it, more details that support the theme and the emotional content of the memory may have been mixed in. What I would say is, you know, I would totally believe that, maybe she remembers it as being worse than it was, because that's what tends to happen is these memories can get worse over time. That's actually--a lot of that is discussed in the literature on post-traumatic stress disorder, right? And the idea there is that PTSD--you know, people with PTSD can actually make their symptoms worse by remembering the event over time and, actually, the memory becomes more traumatic than the event itself because the memory gets enhanced and they need to try to work against that.<br />
<br />
S: So, you know, I think that Ford's therapist would have probably a lot better idea of which of these processes were at work or, like, how plausible is it that, like, how much has she been dwelling on this over the years? How much has she had therapy where she's had to re-live it or recount it, or et cetera? That's always why contemporaneous accounts are always so valuable, because anything that locks in details at the time they happened, we know that they haven't drifted or enhanced over the--been enhanced over the years.<br />
<br />
S: So, that could explain--you know, the other thing is people are trying to say, "Is it possible they're both telling the truth here?" Well, you know, I'm not gonna try to make those kind of judgments, and people are going to have strong feelings about this one way or the other. But is it possible that Kavanaugh did something that--I mean, it's hard to imagine that she didn't have a traumatic experience, right? And I think that some details like "Who was the person assaulting her" is something that she would remember. Right? So those are probably details that are accurate. But maybe it wasn't as bad as she remembers? Not to minimize what happened but, just in, in other words, it's possible that Kavanaugh's memory of it is like, "Oh, it wasn't that bad," and her memory of it was that it was really bad and the truth is somewhere in the middle. You know what I mean? He might have--his memory may have minimized it over the years, or may in fact not remember, although he vehemently denies ever blacking out. You know, that's a separate issue that, you know, that is being explored in the media, but, you know, if we're just saying "What are the possibilities here?" It's possible that he sort of whitewashed the memory over the years, or he just doesn't remember all of it or parts of it and it's possible that her memory's accurate; it's also possible her memory's been enhanced, and thay may explain why they're far apart, right? <br />
<br />
S: But, having said all that, there's no reason--the details of her memory give us no reason to be suspicious of her sincerity. Let me say that. You can't say, "Oh, if this were a real memory, she would not forget those details." That's wrong. That, we can say is flat-out wrong. Uh, remembering some details vividly and forgetting others is absolutely typical. But, obviously, there's a huge range of possibilities within what we know from research about the way memory works specifically for traumatic events. So, of course, within that wiggle room, you know, people could place themselves along the continuum wherever they want, in alignment with their partisan proclivities.<br />
<br />
E: As a side note to all that, this has been a opportunity--I kind of hate to use that word--for people to learn more about memory overall, and a lot of misconceptions and--<br />
<br />
S: Yeah, ideally, these events would be just that, Evan, opportunities to learn, you know, objectively, about things like memory and traumatic events, et cetera. But, unfortunately, I think people take their corners, you know. Our experience is that highly charged controversies are not a good time to teach people stuff because they're not really open to being taught; they're very defensive. <br />
<br />
E: Yes, everyone's getting in their trenches. <br />
<br />
S: Yeah, in general, we say it's better to engage people and teach them on topics that they're not emotional about because they'll be better able to learn and to understand and to process it. But they reason why I think it's important for us to talk about this is because we're not only teaching about memory in the abstract; we're trying to model how to respond to these controversial events, and I think that one way to do that is to try to back up; to try to be objective, and to be aware of your bias and your partisanship and your ideology and say, "Alright, I'm gonna sort of step out of it and not let that influence me and try to look objectively at what the evidence actually says and what the experts actually say, rather than just taking a side and, you know, making a lawyer's case for that side," which is what most people are doing. It's hard, though, it's hard.<br />
<br />
E: Very hard.<br />
<br />
S: But I think it's important to try. And, you know, again, I'm trying not to get political, but I to think that we need to, at times--<br />
<br />
E: Too late!<br />
<br />
S: Well, there are political implications of critical thinking, right? I think that being reasonable, rational, and critical thinking is especially important at times like this. And that means that there has to be a rational conversation to have in the middle where we find common ground. And when you go to the extremes and you justify that in whatever way you justify it, you know, even if it is justified, I think you have to make even all the more of an effort to say, "Okay, a reasonable person would be angry or defensive, or whatever in this situation, but I'm going to try to rise above it and maintain some kind of objective, you know, reasonableness" because, if we don't, then we lose our ability to function. You know, and I think that's--I've read a lot about this and I think the one common thread in discussion of this which I agree with is like the one thing--this is a muddy mess, but the one thing we can all agree on is how dysfunctional the whole process is.<br />
<br />
J: Sure. Yeah.<br />
<br />
E: I agree.<br />
<br />
S: But I think that, how do we get out of it, then? How do you get out of the dysfunction? By just saying, "Okay, we gotta find some common ground in the middle, and facts are the common ground. Which is why this whole "post-fact" thing is so upsetting, because, without facts, we have no common ground, and then we can't--that's when the system is broken. We need to be able to at least agree on some kind of basic shared reality. Right? Otherwise, there is no common ground; there's no hope for any workable process. <br />
<br />
== Science or Fiction <small>()</small> ==<br />
<br />
== Skeptical Quote of the Week <small>()</small> ==<br />
<blockquote>The biggest gift of science is teaching us how to free our mind. So stay skeptical, be curious, and ask questions. - Vince Ebert (German entertainer and science communicator)<br />
</blockquote><br />
<br />
== Announcements <small>()</small> ==<br />
<br />
<br />
{{Outro404}} <!-- inserts the template containing the voiceover outro (including links) for episodes 404 onwards. For older episodes use:<br />
{{Outro1}} - episodes 301-403 (inclusive)<br />
{{Outro291}} - episodes 291-300 (inclusive)<br />
episodes 289 & 290 use the same text as 291-300, but are voiced by Steve<br />
{{Outro119}} - episodes 119-288 (inclusive)<br />
{{Outro61}} - episodes 61-118 (inclusive)<br />
{{Outro39}} - episodes 39-60 (inclusive)<br />
{{Outro30}} - episodes 30-38 (inclusive)<br />
{{Outro18}} - episodes 18-29 (inclusive)<br />
--><br />
<br />
== References ==<br />
<references/><br />
<br />
{{Navigation}} <!-- inserts images that link to the previous and next episode pages --><br />
{{Page categories<br />
|Neuroscience & Psychology = y <!-- Traumatic memory (691) --><br />
}}</div>ReliefTwitcherhttps://www.sgutranscripts.org/w/index.php?title=SGU_Episode_691&diff=11423SGU Episode 6912018-10-12T00:43:07Z<p>ReliefTwitcher: </p>
<hr />
<div>{{LatestEpisode}}<br />
{{Editing required<br />
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|Today I Learned list = y<br />
|categories = y<br />
|segment redirects = y <!-- redirect pages for segments with head-line type titles --><br />
|}}<br />
{{InfoBox <br />
|episodeNum = 691<br />
|episodeDate = 6<sup>th</sup> October 2018 <!-- broadcast date --><br />
|episodeIcon = File:LogoSGU.png <!-- use "File:" and file name for image on show notes page--><br />
|previous = 690 <!-- not required, automates to previous episode --><br />
|next = 692 <!-- not required, automates to next episode --><br />
|cara = <!-- leave blank if absent --><br />
|bob = y <!-- leave blank if absent --><br />
|jay = y <!-- leave blank if absent --><br />
|evan = y <!-- leave blank if absent --><br />
|perry = <!-- leave blank if absent --><br />
|guest1 = <!-- leave blank if no guest --><br />
|guest2 = <!-- leave blank if no second guest --><br />
|guest3 = <!-- leave blank if no third guest --><br />
|downloadLink = http://media.libsyn.com/media/skepticsguide/skepticast2018-10-06.mp3<br />
|forumLink = https://sguforums.com/index.php/topic,50681.0.html<br />
|qowText = 'The biggest gift of science is teaching us how to free our mind. So stay skeptical, be curious, and ask questions.' <!-- add quote of the week text--><br />
|qowAuthor = Vince Ebert (German entertainer and science communicator) <!-- add author and link --><br />
|}}<br />
<br />
<br />
== Introduction ==<br />
''You're listening to the Skeptics' Guide to the Universe, your escape to reality.''<br />
<br />
== News Items ==<br />
=== Item 1 <small>()</small>===<br />
<br />
== Who's That Noisy? <small>()</small>==<br />
<br />
== Questions and Emails <small>()</small> ==<br />
=== Traumatic memory <small>(57:47)</small>===<br />
<br />
S: So we're gonna do one e-mail this week. This comes from Daniel Mangum from Tigard, Oregon--Oregon, er, T-I-G-A-R-D. TEE-gard? TIG-urd? TIG-ard?<br />
<br />
J: TIG-eeeard...<br />
<br />
E: Arrrrd, yes.<br />
<br />
S: I don't know how to pronounce that. He writes: "I got my SGU book today…yipppeee! I started reading and finished chapter 2 on memory. I know you guys avoid politics as much as possible, but would you consider talking about this subject in the context of the recent testimony by Dr. Blasey Ford and Judge Kavanaugh?"<br />
<br />
E: No.<br />
<br />
S: Uh, well, Daniel--<br />
<br />
E: No.<br />
<br />
S: Thanks for the positive comments about the book; this is the week the book launches, so we're getting a lot of people telling us about their experience reading the book; we appreciate it. So, yes, this is--while we do not try to get into political discussions, meaning talking about, like, promoting any particular partisan position or ideology, informing the science behind a politically important subject is exactly what we do, right? And so this is--this is interesting 'cause this is something that a lot of people are talking about in the last couple of weeks and most people have no idea what they're talking about, right?<br />
<br />
E: Right.<br />
<br />
S: And so they're going to then default to whatever their political opinion is, whereas I think what we should be doing is, regardless of what side of this issue we're on in terms of our partisan afiliations, we should try to get the science correct.<br />
<br />
S: So let's--let's try to do that. Let's just, you know, try to back up a little bit, take a deep breath and say, alright, what do we know? And the good news is is that a lot has been written about this over the years, so I can go back and read an article about how do--does emotional trauma affect memory, for example. That was written a year ago, or two years ago. And it's not about this case or biased about it, it's just saying, "Here's what the literature shows," right? <br />
<br />
S: As you might imagine, this is a complicated question. But this is the gist of what the research says so far: so, there's a lot of--first of all, there's a lot of context that we could talk about and there's a lot of different types of memory that we could talk about. Memory itself is a complicated thing. Let me hit the highlights that I think would be relevant in trying to understand this kind of case.<br />
<br />
S: If you've been living under a rock, you know Dr. Blasey Ford has accused Judge Kavanaugh, who is Donald Trump's nominee for the Supreme Court, that, when they were in high school, when he was 17 and she was 15, at a party, he got drunk, he and his friend, whose name is Judge, right? Mark Judge, Mike Judge, uh...were in--they took her to a bedroom and Bret Kavanaugh sexually assaulted her, tried to rape her, but she was able to escape, you know, before there was any actual rape. But he did sexually assault her. Of course, this is 36 years ago, yeah, and Dr. Blasey Ford says she's 100 percent certain that this happened and that it was Bret Kavanaugh who did it; Bret Kavanaugh says he's 100 percent certain that he didn't do it; that this event never happened.<br />
<br />
E: And that he also says we was not at the said party. <br />
<br />
S: That's, that's a more complicated bit because, uh, Ford--<br />
<br />
E: That's his claim.<br />
<br />
S: Well, yeah, but what party, right? The thing is--yeah, he's saying--did he say that he was never at any party with Ford?<br />
<br />
E: Uh, no he didn't say...I don't know if he's saying that.<br />
<br />
S: So, here's the thing: so Ford says--is able to recall certain details about this evening. Uh, she--there's, like, random details about the house and what happened. She says that, while this was happening, the two guys were laughing and their laughter's burned into her memory. But she's not exactly sure where the house was or what day it was that this happened and she's not quite sure how she got home, for example. But she is sure about some details. And so this has sparked the discussion: what is the significance of her memory--her partial memory of this event? Does this call into question the credibility of her memory, or of her sincerity, of her veracity?<br />
<br />
S: Okay, what do we know about memory in general and memory that results from an emotionally traumatic event, specifically, right? So, memories in general, we know, again, if you read the book, our chapter in the book on this, memories are terrible. <br />
<br />
E: Oh, yeah.<br />
<br />
S: From the moment they're created, they're a partial narrative about happened. We select what information gets through. You know, this is all usually subconcious. It's filtered; it's biased by our expectations and our perceptions and what we already think is going on. You know, we have sort of a narrative about what we believe happened; that becomes our memory and then, over time, that memory morphs. It could morph with other memories; you can fuse details, you can switch details; you can switch the perspective. A third-person memory can become a first-person memory, et cetera.<br />
<br />
S: But: there is some research on the effects of emotionally charged events on memory. And what they show is that high emotion tends to increase memory. But usually only if it's a negative emotion. So, negative emotions have, uh, enhanced memory. But the evidence suggests they have what's called focal memory enhancement. And what that means is that some details are enhanced while others are not. And that is--<br />
<br />
E: That's complex. Oh my gosh.<br />
<br />
S: It's complicated, but--so what ends up happening is--and, of course, you know, for example, women who have been sexually assaulted, raped, or whatever, anything that would be, you know, a violent encounter like that, they tend to have these vivid, stable, clear memories of specific details. And, really, they weren't processing and don't really remember, or their memories just fade for other details. They fade or morph, or whatever. And so you end up with this patchy kind of memory. "Oh, I distinctly remember what music was playing, but I don't know where we were." You know, that's a very typical feature of a negative--emotionally negative traumatic memory. That's what the research shows.<br />
<br />
S: But there's also another phenomenon which has been demonstrated, and that's called memory enhancement. And what happens is, as people remember emotionally traumatic events, they may--their memory may alter to enhance the emotional significance of the event. This is worsened--uh, this effect is increased if you try to visualize, like if you force yourself to remember, or to re-live the event, or to visualize it. So, it's something that very easily can happen in therapy, for example. <br />
<br />
S: My takeaway from all of this is that Dr. Ford's memory is actually completely compatible with the research on what the memory of that type of event would be like. Certain details are vivid; certain details are burned into her memory; she reports other details are lost or foggy or faded. That's typical. The fact that she doesn't remember those things does not call into question the veracity of her memory. It's not incompatible with a traumatic memory; it's actually completely typical of it.<br />
<br />
S: However, the research also suggests that there may be details of her memory that are not accurate because they may have been enhanced over the years. As she remembers it, more details that support the theme and the emotional content of the memory may have been mixed in. What I would say is, you know, I would totally believe that, maybe she remembers it as being worse than it was, because that's what tends to happen is these memories can get worse over time. That's actually--a lot of that is discussed in the literature on post-traumatic stress disorder, right? And the idea there is that PTSD--you know, people with PTSD can actually make their symptoms worse by remembering the event over time and, actually, the memory becomes more traumatic than the event itself because the memory gets enhanced and they need to try to work against that.<br />
<br />
S: So, you know, I think that Ford's therapist would have probably a lot better idea of which of these processes were at work or, like, how plausible is it that, like, how much has she been dwelling on this over the years? How much has she had therapy where she's had to re-live it or recount it, or et cetera? That's always why contemporaneous accounts are always so valuable, because anything that locks in details at the time they happened, we know that they haven't drifted or enhanced over the--been enhanced over the years.<br />
<br />
S: So, that could explain--you know, the other thing is people are trying to say, "Is it possible they're both telling the truth here?" Well, you know, I'm not gonna try to make those kind of judgements, and people are going to have strong feelings about this one way or the other. But is it possible that Kavanaugh did something that--I mean, it's hard to imagine that she didn't have a traumatic experience, right? And I think that some details like "Who was the person assaulting her" is something that she would remember. Right? So those are probably details that are accurate. But maybe it wasn't as bad as she remembers? Not to minimize what happened but, just in, in other words, it's possible that Kavanaugh's memory of it is like, "Oh, it wasn't that bad," and her memory of it was that it was really bad and the truth is somewhere in the middle. You know what I mean? He might have--his memory may have minimized it over the years, or may in fact not remember, although he vehemently denies ever blacking out. You know, that's a separate issue that, you know, that is being explored in the media, but, you know, if we're just saying "What are the possibilities here?" It's possible that he sort of whitewashed the memory over the years, or he just doesn't remember all of it or parts of it and it's possible that her memory's accurate; it's also possible her memory's been enhanced, and thay may explain why they're far apart, right? <br />
<br />
S: But, having said all that, there's no reason--the details of her memory give us no reason to be suspicious of her sincerity. Let me say that. You can't say, "Oh, if this were a real memory, she would not forget those details." That's wrong. That, we can say is flat-out wrong. Uh, remembering some details vividly and forgetting others is absolutely typical. But, obviously, there's a huge range of possibilities within what we know from research about the way memory works specifically for traumatic events. So, of course, within that wiggle room, you know, people could place themselves along the continuum wherever they want, in alignment with their partisan proclivities.<br />
<br />
E: As a side note to all that, this has been a opportunity--I kind of hate to use that word--for people to learn more about memory overall, and a lot of misconceptions and--<br />
<br />
S: Yeah, ideally, these events would be just that, Evan, opportunities to learn, you know, objectively, about things like memory and traumatic events, et cetera. But, unfortunately, I think people take their corners, you know. Our experience is that highly charged controversies are not a good time to teach people stuff because they're not really open to being taught; they're very defensive. <br />
<br />
E: Yes, everyone's getting in their trenches. <br />
<br />
S: Yeah, in general, we say it's better to engage people and teach them on topics that they're not emotional about because they'll be better able to learn and to understand and to process it. But they reason why I think it's important for us to talk about this is because we're not only teaching about memory in the abstract; we're trying to model how to respond to these controversial events, and I think that one way to do that is to try to back up; to try to be objective, and to be aware of your bias and your partisanship and your ideology and say, "Alright, I'm gonna sort of step out of it and not let that influence me and try to look objectively at what the evidence actually says and what the experts actually say, rather than just taking a side and, you know, making a lawyer's case for that side, which is what most people are doing. It's hard, though, it's hard.<br />
<br />
E: Very hard.<br />
<br />
S: But I think it's important to try. And, you know, again, I'm trying not to get political, but I to think that we need to, at times--<br />
<br />
E: Too late!<br />
<br />
S: Well, there are political implications of critical thinking, right? I think that being reasonable, rational, and critical thinking is especially important at times like this. And that means that there has to be a rational conversation to have in the middle where we find common ground. And when you go to the extremes and you justify that in whatever way you justify it, you know, even if it is justified, I think you have to make even all the more of an effort to say, "Okay, a reasonable person would be angry or defensive, or whatever in this situation, but I'm going to try to rise above it and maintain some kind of objective, you know, reasonableness because, if we don't, then we lose our ability to function. You know, and I think that's--I've read a lot about this and I think the one common thread in discussion of this which I agree with is like the one thing--this is a muddy mess, but the one thing we can all agree on is how disfunctional the whole process is.<br />
<br />
J: Sure. Yeah.<br />
<br />
E: I agree.<br />
<br />
S: But I think that, how do we get out of it, then? How do you get out of the disfunction? By just saying, "Okay, we gotta find some common ground in the middle, and facts are the common ground. Which is why this whole "post-fact" thing is so upsetting, because, without facts, we have no common ground, and then we can't--that's when the system is broken. We need to be able to at least agree on some kind of basic shared reality. Right? Otherwise, there is no common ground, there's no hope for any workable process. <br />
<br />
== Science or Fiction <small>()</small> ==<br />
<br />
== Skeptical Quote of the Week <small>()</small> ==<br />
<blockquote>The biggest gift of science is teaching us how to free our mind. So stay skeptical, be curious, and ask questions. - Vince Ebert (German entertainer and science communicator)<br />
</blockquote><br />
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episodes 289 & 290 use the same text as 291-300, but are voiced by Steve<br />
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|Neuroscience & Psychology = y <!-- Traumatic memory (691) --><br />
}}</div>ReliefTwitcherhttps://www.sgutranscripts.org/w/index.php?title=SGU_Episode_691&diff=11422SGU Episode 6912018-10-12T00:29:49Z<p>ReliefTwitcher: </p>
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<br />
<br />
== Introduction ==<br />
''You're listening to the Skeptics' Guide to the Universe, your escape to reality.''<br />
<br />
== News Items ==<br />
=== Item 1 <small>()</small>===<br />
<br />
== Who's That Noisy? <small>()</small>==<br />
<br />
== Questions and Emails <small>()</small> ==<br />
=== Traumatic memory <small>(57:47)</small>===<br />
<br />
S: So we're gonna do one e-mail this week. This comes from Daniel Mangum from Tigard, Oregon--Oregon, er, T-I-G-A-R-D. TEE-gard? TIG-urd? TIG-ard?<br />
<br />
J: TIG-eeeard...<br />
<br />
E: Arrrrd, yes.<br />
<br />
S: I don't know how to pronounce that. He writes: "I got my SGU book today…yipppeee! I started reading and finished chapter 2 on memory. I know you guys avoid politics as much as possible, but would you consider talking about this subject in the context of the recent testimony by Dr. Blasey Ford and Judge Kavanaugh?"<br />
<br />
E: No.<br />
<br />
S: Uh, well, Daniel--<br />
<br />
E: No.<br />
<br />
S: Thanks for the positive comments about the book; this is the week the book launches, so we're getting a lot of people telling us about their experience reading the book; we appreciate it. So, yes, this is--while we do not try to get into political discussions, meaning talking about, like, promoting any particular partisan position or ideology, informing the science behind a politically important subject is exactly what we do, right? And so this is--this is interesting 'cause this is something that a lot of people are talking about in the last couple of weeks and most people have no idea what they're talking about, right?<br />
<br />
E: Right.<br />
<br />
S: And so they're going to then default to whatever their political opinion is, whereas I think what we should be doing is, regardless of what side of this issue we're on in terms of our partisan afiliations, we should try to get the science correct.<br />
<br />
S: So let's--let's try to do that. Let's just, you know, try to back up a little bit, take a deep breath and say, alright, what do we know? And the good news is is that a lot has been written about this over the years, so I can go back and read an article about how do--does emotional trauma affect memory, for example. That was written a year ago, or two years ago. And it's not about this case or biased about it, it's just saying, "Here's what the literature shows," right? <br />
<br />
S: As you might imagine, this is a complicated question. But this is the gist of what the research says so far: so, there's a lot of--first of all, there's a lot of context that we could talk about and there's a lot of different types of memory that we could talk about. Memory itself is a complicated thing. Let me hit the highlights that I think would be relevant in trying to understand this kind of case.<br />
<br />
S: If you've been living under a rock, you know Dr. Blasey Ford has accused Judge Kavanaugh, who is Donald Trump's nominee for the Supreme Court, that, when they were in high school, when he was 17 and she was 15, at a party, he got drunk, he and his friend, whose name is Judge, right? Mark Judge, Mike Judge, uh...were in--they took her to a bedroom and Bret Kavanaugh sexually assaulted her, tried to rape her, but she was able to escape, you know, before there was any actual rape. But he did sexually assault her. Of course, this is 36 years ago, yeah, and Dr. Blasey Ford says she's 100 percent certain that this happened and that it was Bret Kavanaugh who did it; Bret Kavanaugh says he's 100 percent certain that he didn't do it; that this event never happened.<br />
<br />
E: And that he also says we was not at the said party. <br />
<br />
S: That's, that's a more complicated bit because, uh, Ford--<br />
<br />
E: That's his claim.<br />
<br />
S: Well, yeah, but what party, right? The thing is--yeah, he's saying--did he say that he was never at any party with Ford?<br />
<br />
E: Uh, no he didn't say...I don't know if he's saying that.<br />
<br />
S: So, here's the thing: so Ford says--is able to recall certain details about this evening. Uh, she--there's, like, random details about the house and what happened. She says that, while this was happening, the two guys were laughing and their laughter's burned into her memory. But she's not exactly sure where the house was or what day it was that this happened and she's not quite sure how she got home, for example. But she is sure about some details. And so this has sparked the discussion: what is the significance of her memory--her partial memory of this event? Does this call into question the credibility of her memory, or of her sincerity, of her veracity?<br />
<br />
S: Okay, what do we know about memory in general and memory that results from an emotionally traumatic event, specifically, right? So, memories in general, we know, again, if you read the book, our chapter in the book on this, memories are terrible. <br />
<br />
E: Oh, yeah.<br />
<br />
S: From the moment they're created, they're a partial narrative about happened. We select what information gets through. You know, this is all usually subconcious. It's filtered; it's biased by our expectations and our perceptions and what we already think is going on. You know, we have sort of a narrative about what we believe happened; that becomes our memory and then, over time, that memory morphs. It could morph with other memories; you can fuse details, you can switch details; you can switch the perspective. A third-person memory can become a first-person memory, et cetera.<br />
<br />
S: But: there is some research on the effects of emotionally charged events on memory. And what they show is that high emotion tends to increase memory. But usually only if it's a negative emotion. So, negative emotions have, uh, enhanced memory. But the evidence suggests they have what's called focal memory enhancement. And what that means is that some details are enhanced while others are not. And that is--<br />
<br />
E: That's complex. Oh my gosh.<br />
<br />
S: It's complicated, but--so what ends up happening is--and, of course, you know, for example, women who have been sexually assaulted, raped, or whatever, anything that would be, you know, a violent encounter like that, they tend to have these vivid, stable, clear memories of specific details. And, really, they weren't processing and don't really remember, or their memories just fade for other details. They fade or morph, or whatever. And so you end up with this patchy kind of memory. "Oh, I distinctly remember what music was playing, but I don't know where we were." You know, that's a very typical feature of a negative--emotionally negative traumatic memory. That's what the research shows.<br />
<br />
S: But there's also another phenomenon which has been demonstrated, and that's called memory enhancement. And what happens is, as people remember emotionally traumatic events, they may--their memory may alter to enhance the emotional significance of the event. This is worsened--uh, this effect is increased if you try to visualize, like if you force yourself to remember, or to re-live the event, or to visualize it. So, it's something that very easily can happen in therapy, for example. <br />
<br />
S: My takeaway from all of this is that Dr. Ford's memory is actually completely compatible with the research on what the memory of that type of event would be like. Certain details are vivid; certain details are burned into her memory; she reports other details are lost or foggy or faded. That's typical. The fact that she doesn't remember those things does not call into question the veracity of her memory. It's not incompatible with a traumatic memory; it's actually completely typical of it.<br />
<br />
S: However, the research also suggests that there may be details of her memory that are not accurate because they may have been enhanced over the years. As she remembers it, more details that support the theme and the emotional content of the memory may have been mixed in. What I would say is, you know, I would totally believe that, maybe she remembers it as being worse than it was, because that's what tends to happen is these memories can get worse over time. That's actually--a lot of that is discussed in the literature on post-traumatic stress disorder, right? And the idea there is that PTSD--you know, people with PTSD can actually make their symptoms worse by remembering the event over time and, actually, the memory becomes more traumatic than the event itself because the memory gets enhanced and they need to try to work against that.<br />
<br />
S: So, you know, I think that Ford's therapist would have probably a lot better idea of which of these processes were at work or, like, how plausible is it that, like, how much has she been dwelling on this over the years? How much has she had therapy where she's had to re-live it or recount it, or et cetera? That's always why contemporaneous accounts are always so valuable, because anything that locks in details at the time they happened, we know that they haven't drifted or enhanced over the--been enhanced over the years.<br />
<br />
S: So, that could explain--you know, the other thing is people are trying to say, "Is it possible they're both telling the truth here?" Well, you know, I'm not gonna try to make those kind of judgements, and people are going to have strong feelings about this one way or the other. But is it possible that Kavanaugh did something that--I mean, it's hard to imagine that she didn't have a traumatic experience, right? And I think that some details like "Who was the person assaulting her" is something that she would remember. Right? So those are probably details that are accurate. But maybe it wasn't as bad as she remembers? Not to minimize what happened but, just in, in other words, it's possible that Kavanaugh's memory of it is like, "Oh, it wasn't that bad," and her memory of it was that it was really bad and the truth is somewhere in the middle. You know what I mean? He might have--his memory may have minimized it over the years, or may in fact not remember, although he vehemently denies ever blacking out. You know, that's a separate issue that, you know, that is being explored in the media, but, you know, if we're just saying "What are the possibilities here?" It's possible that he sort of whitewashed the memory over the years, or he just doesn't remember all of it or parts of it and it's possible that her memory's accurate; it's also possible her memory's been enhanced, and thay may explain why they're far apart, right? <br />
<br />
S: But, having said all that, there's no reason--the details of her memory give us no reason to be suspicious of her sincerity. Let me say that. You can't say, "Oh, if this were a real memory, she would not forget those details." That's wrong. That, we can say is flat-out wrong. Uh, remembering some details vividly and forgetting others is absolutely typical. But, obviously, there's a huge range of possibilities within what we know from research about the way memory works specifically for traumatic events. So, of course, within that wiggle room, you know, people could place themselves along the continuum wherever they want, in alignment with their partisan proclivities.<br />
<br />
E: As a side note to all that, this has been a opportunity--I kind of hate to use that word--for people to learn more about memory overall, and a lot of misconceptions and--<br />
<br />
S: Yeah, ideally, these events would be just that, Evan, opportunities to learn, you know, objectively, about things like memory and traumatic events, et cetera. But, unfortunately, I think people take their corners, you know. Our experience is that highly charged controversies are not a good time to teach people stuff because they're not really open to being taught; they're very defensive. <br />
<br />
E: Yes, everyone's getting in their trenches. <br />
<br />
S: Yeah, in general, we say it's better to engage people and teach them on topics that they're not emotional about because they'll be better able to learn and to understand and to process it. But they reason why I think it's important for us to talk about this is because we're not only teaching about memory in the abstract; we're trying to model how to respond to these controversial events, and I think that one way to do that is to try to back up; to try to be objective, and to be aware of your bias and your partisanship and your ideology and say, "Alright, I'm gonna sort of step out of it and not let that influence me and try to look objectively at what the evidence actually says and what the experts actually say, rather than just taking a side and, you know, making a lawyer's case for that side, which is what most people are doing. It's hard, though, it's hard.<br />
<br />
E: Very hard.<br />
<br />
S: But I think it's important to try. And, you know, again, I'm trying not to get political, but I to think that we need to, at times--<br />
<br />
E: Too late!<br />
<br />
S: Well, there are political implications of critical thinking, right? I think that being reasonable, rational, and critical thinking is especially important at times like this. And that means that there has to be a rational conversation to have in the middle where we find common ground. And when you go to the extremes and you justify that in whatever way you justify it, you know, even if it is justified, I think you have to make even all the more of an effort to say, "Okay, a reasonable person would be angry or defensive, or whatever in this situation, but I'm going to try to rise above it and maintain some kind of objective, you know, reasonableness because, if we don't, then we lose our ability to function. You know, and I think that's--I've read a lot about this and I think the one common thread in discussion of this which I agree with is like the one thing--this is a muddy mess, but the one thing we can all agree on is how disfunctional the whole process is.<br />
<br />
J: Sure. Yeah.<br />
<br />
E: I agree.<br />
<br />
S: But I think that, how do we get out of it, then? How do you get out of the disfunction? By just saying, "Okay, we gotta find some common ground in the middle, and facts are the common ground. Which is why this whole "post-fact" thing is so upsetting, because, without facts, we have no common ground, and then we can't--that's when the system is broken. We need to be able to at least agree on some kind of basic shared reality. Right? Otherwise, there is no common ground, there's no hope for any workable process. <br />
<br />
== Science or Fiction <small>()</small> ==<br />
<br />
== Skeptical Quote of the Week <small>()</small> ==<br />
<blockquote>The biggest gift of science is teaching us how to free our mind. So stay skeptical, be curious, and ask questions. - Vince Ebert (German entertainer and science communicator)<br />
</blockquote><br />
<br />
== Announcements <small>()</small> ==<br />
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| &nbsp;&ndash;&nbsp; transcription complete and needs proof-reading<br />
|-<br />
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;{{i}}<br />
| &ndash;&nbsp; transcription in progress<br />
| &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;{{Open}}<br />
| &nbsp;&ndash;&nbsp; contains sections that need transcribing<br />
|-<br />
|&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;{{a}}<br />
|colspan="3"| &ndash;&nbsp; first pass of transcription performed by Google Speech API<br />
|}<br />
<br />
{|style="margin:1em 3em"<br />
|style="padding-right: 6em;white-space:nowrap" valign="top"|<span id="2017"><big>'''2018'''</big></span><br />
----<br />
* [[SGU Episode 691]], Oct 6 2018{{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 665]], Apr 7 2018{{Open}}{{a}}<br />
<br />
<span id="2017"><big>'''2017'''</big></span><br />
----<br />
* [[SGU Episode 644]], Nov 11 2017{{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 643]], Nov 4 2017{{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 642]], Oct 28 2017{{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 641]], Oct 21 2017{{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 640]], Oct 14 2017{{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 639]], Oct 7 2017{{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 638]], Sep 30 2017{{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 637]], Sep 23 2017{{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 636]], Sep 16 2017{{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 635]], Sep 9 2017{{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 634]], Sep 2 2017{{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 633]], Aug 26 2017{{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 632]], Aug 19 2017{{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 631]], Aug 12 2017{{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 630]], Aug 5 2017{{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 629]], Jul 29 2017{{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 628]], Jul 22 2017{{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 627]], Jul 15 2017{{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 626]], Jul 8 2017{{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 625]], Jul 1 2017{{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 624]], Jun 24 2017{{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 623]], Jun 17 2017{{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 622]], Jun 10 2017{{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 621]], Jun 3 2017{{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 620]], May 27 2017{{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 619]], May 20 2017{{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 618]], May 13 2017{{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 617]], May 6 2017{{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 616]], Apr 29 2017{{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 615]], Apr 22 2017{{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 614]], Apr 15 2017{{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 613]], Apr 8 2017{{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 612]], Apr 1 2017{{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 611]], Mar 25 2017{{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 610]], Mar 18 2017{{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 609]], Mar 11 2017{{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 608]], Mar 4 2017{{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 607]], Feb 25 2017{{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 606]], Feb 18 2017{{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 605]], Feb 11 2017{{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 604]], Feb 4 2017{{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 603]], Jan 28 2017{{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 602]], Jan 21 2017{{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 601]], Jan 14 2017{{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 600]], Jan 7 2017{{Open}}<br />
<br />
<span id="2016"><big>'''2016'''</big></span><br />
----<br />
* [[SGU Episode 599]], Dec 31 2016 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 598]], Dec 24 2016 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 597]], Dec 17 2016 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 596]], Dec 10 2016 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 595]], Dec 3 2016 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 594]], Nov 26 2016 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 593]], Nov 19 2016 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 592]], Nov 12 2016 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 591]], Nov 5 2016 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 590]], Oct 29 2016 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 589]], Oct 22 2016 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 588]], Oct 15 2016 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 587]], Oct 08 2016 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 586]], Oct 01 2016 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 585]], Sep 24 2016 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 584]], Sep 17 2016 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 583]], Sep 10 2016 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 582]], Sep 3 2016 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 581]], Aug 27 2016 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 580]], Aug 20 2016 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 579]], Aug 13 2016 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 578]], Aug 06 2016 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 577]], Jul 30 2016 {{mag}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 576]], Jul 23 2016 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 575]], Jul 16 2016 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 574]], Jul 9 2016 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 573]], Jun 22 2016 {{mag}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 572]], Jun 25 2016 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 571]], Jun 18 2016 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 570]], Jun 11 2016 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 569]], Jun 4 2016 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 568]], May 28 2016 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 567]], May 21 2016 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 566]], May 14 2016 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 565]], May 7 2016 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 564]], Apr 30 2016 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 563]], Apr 23 2016 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 562]], Apr 16 2016 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 561]], Apr 9 2016 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 560]], Apr 2 2016 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 559]], Mar 26 2016 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 558]], Mar 19 2016 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 557]], Mar 12 2016 {{mag}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 556]], Mar 5 2016 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 555]], Feb 27 2016 {{mag}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 554]], Feb 20 2016 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 553]], Feb 13 2016 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 552]], Feb 6 2016 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 551]], Jan 30 2016 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 550]], Jan 23 2016 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 549]], Jan 16 2016 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 548]], Jan 9 2016 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 547]], Jan 2 2016 {{Open}}<br />
<br />
<span id="2015"><big>'''2015'''</big></span><br />
----<br />
* [[SGU Episode 546]], Dec 26 2015 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 545]], Dec 19 2015 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 544]], Dec 12 2015 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 543]], Dec 5 2015 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 542]], Nov 28 2015 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 541]], Nov 21 2015 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 540]], Nov 14 2015 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 539]], Nov 7 2015 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 538]], Oct 31 2015 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 537]], Oct 24 2015 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 536]], Oct 17 2015 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 535]], Oct 10 2015 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 534]], Oct 3 2015 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 533]], Sep 19 2015 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 532]], Sep 19 2015 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 531]], Sep 12 2015 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 530]], Sep 5 2015 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 529]], Aug 29 2015 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 528]], Aug 22 2015 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 527]], Aug 15 2015 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 526]], Aug 8 2015 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 525]], Aug 1 2015 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 524]], Jul 25 2015 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 523]], Jul 18 2015 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 522]], Jul 11 2015 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 521]], Jul 4 2015 {{mag}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 520]], Jun 27 2015 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 519]], Jun 20 2015 {{mag}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 518]], Jun 13 2015 {{mag}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 517]], Jun 6 2015 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 516]], May 30 2015 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 515]], May 23 2015 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 514]], May 16 2015 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 513]], May 9 2015 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 512]], May 2 2015 {{mag}}<br />
* [[SGU 10-Hour Show]], May 2 2015 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 511]], Apr 25 2015 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 510]], Apr 18 2015 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 509]], Apr 11 2015 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 508]], Apr 4 2015 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 507]], Mar 28 2015 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 506]], Mar 21 2015 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 505]], Mar 14 2015 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 504]], Mar 7 2015 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 503]], Feb 28 2015 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 502]], Feb 21 2015 {{mag}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 501]], Feb 14 2015 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 500]], Feb 7 2015 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 499]], Jan 31 2015 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 498]], Jan 24 2015 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 497]], Jan 17 2015 {{mag}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 496]], Jan 10 2015 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 495]], Jan 3 2015 {{Open}}<br />
<br />
<br />
<span id="2014"><big>'''2014'''</big></span><br />
----<br />
* [[SGU Episode 494]], Dec 27 2014 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 493]], Dec 20 2014 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 492]], Dec 13 2014 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 491]], Dec 6 2014 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 490]], Nov 29 2014 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 489]], Nov 22 2014 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 488]], Nov 15 2014 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 487]], Nov 8 2014 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 486]], Nov 1 2014 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 485]], Oct 25 2014 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 484]], Oct 18 2014 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 483]], Oct 11 2014 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 482]], Oct 4 2014 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 481]], Sep 27 2014 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 480]], Sep 20 2014 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 479]], Sep 13 2014 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 478]], Sep 6 2014 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 477]], Aug 30 2014 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 476]], Aug 23 2014 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 475]], Aug 16 2014 {{tick}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 474]], Aug 9 2014 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 473]], Aug 2 2014 {{tick}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 472]], Jul 26 2014 {{mag}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 471]], Jul 19 2014 {{tick}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 470]], Jul 12 2014 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 469]], Jul 5 2014 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 468]], Jun 28 2014 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 467]], Jun 21 2014 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 466]], Jun 14 2014 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 465]], Jun 7 2014 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 464]], May 31 2014 {{mag}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 463]], May 24 2014 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 462]], May 17 2014 {{mag}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 461]], May 10 2014 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 460]], May 3 2014 {{mag}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 459]], Apr 26 2014 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 458]], Apr 19 2014 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 457]], Apr 12 2014 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 456]], Apr 5 2014 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 455]], Mar 29 2014 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 454]], Mar 22 2014 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 453]], Mar 15 2014 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 452]], Mar 8 2014 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 451]], Mar 1 2014 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 450]], Feb 22 2014 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 449]], Feb 15 2014 {{mag}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 448]], Feb 10 2014 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 447]], Feb 8 2014 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 446]], Feb 1 2014 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 445]], Jan 25 2014 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 444]], Jan 18 2014 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 443]], Jan 11 2014 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 442]], Jan 4 2014 {{Open}}<br />
<br />
<br />
<span id="2013"><big>'''2013'''</big></span><br />
----<br />
* [[SGU Episode 441]], Dec 28 2013 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 440]], Dec 21 2013 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 439]], Dec 14 2013 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 438]], Dec 7 2013 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 437]], Nov 30 2013 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 436]], Nov 23 2013 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 435]], Nov 16 2013 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 434]], Nov 9 2013 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 433]], Nov 2 2013 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 432]], Oct 26 2013 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 431]], Oct 19 2013 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 430]], Oct 12 2013 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 429]], Oct 5 2013 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 428]], Sep 28 2013 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 427]], Sep 21 2013 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 426]], Sep 14 2013 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 425]], Sep 7 2013 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 424]], Aug 31 2013 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 423]], Aug 24 2013 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 422]], Aug 17 2013 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 421]], Aug 10 2013 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 420]], Aug 3 2013 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 419]], Jul 27 2013 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 418]], Jul 20 2013 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 417]], Jul 13 2013 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 416]], Jul 6 2013 {{mag}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 415]], Jun 29 2013 {{mag}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 414]], Jun 22 2013 {{mag}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 413]], Jun 15 2013 {{Open}}{{a}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 412]], Jun 8 2013 {{tick}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 411]], Jun 1 2013 {{a}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 410]], May 25 2013 {{Tick}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 409]], May 18 2013 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 408]], May 11 2013 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 407]], May 4 2013 {{Open}}{{a}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 406]], Apr 27 2013 {{mag}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 405]], Apr 20 2013 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 404]], Apr 13 2013 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 403]], Apr 6 2013 {{mag}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 402]], Mar 30 2013 {{tick}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 401]], Mar 23 2013 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 400]], Mar 16 2013 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 399]], Mar 9 2013 {{mag}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 398]], Mar 2 2013 {{mag}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 397]], Feb 23 2013 {{mag}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 396]], Feb 16 2013 {{tick}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 395]], Feb 9 2013 {{mag}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 394]], Feb 2 2013 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 393]], Jan 26 2013 {{tick}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 392]], Jan 19 2013 {{tick}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 391]], Jan 12 2013 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 390]], Jan 5 2013 {{tick}}<br />
<br />
<br />
<span id="2012"><big>'''2012'''</big></span><br />
----<br />
* [[SGU Episode 389]], Dec 29 2012 {{tick}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 388]], Dec 22 2012 {{mag}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 387]], Dec 15 2012 {{tick}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 386]], Dec 8 2012 {{mag}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 385]], Dec 1 2012 {{mag}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 384]], Nov 24 2012 {{mag}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 383]], Nov 17 2012 {{mag}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 382]], Nov 10 2012 {{mag}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 381]], Nov 3 2012 {{tick}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 380]], Oct 27 2012 {{mag}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 379]], Oct 20 2012 {{mag}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 378]], Oct 13 2012 {{tick}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 377]], Oct 6 2012 {{mag}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 376]], Sep 29 2012 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 375]], Sep 22 2012 {{tick}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 374]], Sep 15 2012 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 373]], Sep 8 2012 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 372]], Sep 1 2012 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 371]], Aug 25 2012 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 370]], Aug 18 2012 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 369]], Aug 11 2012 {{tick}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 368]], Aug 4 2012 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 367]], Jul 28 2012 {{tick}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 366]], Jul 21 2012 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 365]], Jul 14 2012 {{tick}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 364]], Jul 7 2012 {{tick}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 363]], Jun 30 2012 {{tick}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 362]], Jun 23 2012 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 361]], Jun 16 2012 {{mag}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 360]], Jun 9 2012 {{tick}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 359]], Jun 2 2012 {{tick}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 358]], May 26 2012 {{tick}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 357]], May 19 2012 {{tick}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 356]], May 12 2012 {{mag}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 355]], May 5 2012 {{tick}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 354]], Apr 28 2012 {{tick}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 353]], Apr 21 2012 {{mag}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 352]], Apr 14 2012 {{mag}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 351]], Apr 7 2012 {{mag}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 350]], Mar 31 2012 {{tick}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 349]], Mar 24 2012 {{tick}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 348]], Mar 17 2012 {{mag}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 347]], Mar 10 2012 {{mag}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 346]], Mar 3 2012 {{tick}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 345]], Feb 25 2012 {{mag}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 341]], Jan 28 2012 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 340]], Jan 21 2012 {{mag}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 339]], Jan 14 2012 {{tick}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 338]], Jan 7 2012 {{tick}}<br />
<br />
|style="padding-right: 6em;white-space:nowrap" valign="top"| <span id="2011"><big>'''2011'''</big></span><br />
----<br />
* [[SGU Episode 337]], Dec 31 2011 {{tick}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 336]], Dec 24 2011 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 335]], Dec 17 2011 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 334]], Dec 10 2011 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 333]], Dec 3 2011 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 332]], Nov 26 2011 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 331]], Nov 19 2011 {{mag}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 330]], Nov 11 2011 {{mag}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 329]], Nov 5 2011 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 328]], Oct 29 2011 {{tick}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 327]], Oct 22 2011 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 326]], Oct 15 2011 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 325]], Oct 8 2011 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 324]], Oct 1 2011 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 323]], Sep 24 2011 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 322]], Sep 17 2011 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 321]], Sep 10 2011 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU 24hr]], Sep 23-24 2011<br />
* [[SGU Episode 320]], Aug 29 2011 {{mag}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 319]], Aug 24 2011 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 318]], Aug 17 2011 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 317]], Aug 10 2011 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 316]], Aug 3 2011 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 315]], Jul 27 2011 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 314]], Jul 20 2011 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 313]], Jul 13 2011 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 312]], Jul 5 2011 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 311]], Jun 29 2011 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 310]], Jun 22 2011 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 309]], Jun 13 2011 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 308]], Jun 08 2011 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 307]], May 31 2011 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 306]], May 25 2011 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 305]], May 18 2011 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 304]], May 9 2011 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 303]], May 4 2011 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 302]], Apr 27 2011 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 301]], Apr 20 2011 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 300]], Apr 9 2011 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 299]], Apr 4 2011 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 298]], Mar 30 2011 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 297]], Mar 24 2011 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 296]], Mar 16 2011 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 295]], Mar 9 2011 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 294]], Mar 2 2011 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 293]], Feb 23 2011 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 292]], Feb 16 2011 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 291]], Feb 9 2011 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 290]], Jan 31 2011 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 289]], Jan 26 2011 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 288]], Jan 19 2011 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 287]], Jan 12 2011 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 286]], Jan 5 2011 {{Open}}<br />
<br />
<br />
<span id="2010"><big>'''2010'''</big></span><br />
----<br />
* [[SGU Episode 285]], Dec 29 2010 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 284]], Dec 22 2010 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 283]], Dec 15 2010 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 282]], Dec 8 2010 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 281]], Dec 1 2010 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 280]], Nov 24 2010 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 279]], Nov 15 2010 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 278]], Nov 10 2010 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 277]], Nov 3 2010 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 276]], Oct 27 2010 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 275]], Oct 19 2010 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 274]], Oct 13 2010 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 273]], Oct 6 2010 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 272]], Sep 30 2010 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 271]], Sep 22 2010 {{mag}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 270]], Sep 15 2010 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 269]], Sep 8 2010 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 268]], Sep 1 2010 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 267]], Aug 25 2010 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 266]], Aug 19 2010 {{i}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 265]], Aug 11 2010 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 264]], Aug 4 2010 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 263]], Jul 29 2010 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 262]], Jul 21 2010 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 261]], Jul 10 2010 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 260]], Jun 30 2010 {{i}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 259]], Jun 28 2010 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 258]], Jun 16 2010 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 257]], Jun 14 2010 {{mag}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 256]], Jun 9 2010 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 255]], Jun 2 2010 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 254]], May 26 2010 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 253]], May 19 2010 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 252]], May 12 2010 {{mag}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 251]], May 5 2010 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 250]], Apr 28 2010 {{i}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 249]], Apr 17 2010 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 248]], Apr 13 2010 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 247]], Apr 7 2010 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 246]], Mar 31 2010 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 245]], Mar 25 2010 {{i}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 244]], Mar 18 2010 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 243]], Mar 11 2010 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 242]], Mar 3 2010 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 241]], Feb 24 2010 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 240]], Feb 17 2010 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 239]], Feb 10 2010 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 238]], Feb 3 2010 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 237]], Jan 27 2010 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 236]], Jan 20 2010 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 235]], Jan 13 2010 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 234]], Nov 15 2009 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 233]], Jan 6 2010 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 232]], Jan 1 2010 {{mag}}<br />
<br />
<br />
<span id="2009"><big>'''2009'''</big></span><br />
----<br />
* [[SGU Episode 231]], Dec 21 2009 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 230]], Dec 16 2009 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 229]], Dec 9 2009 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 228]], Dec 2 2009 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 227]], Nov 25 2009 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 226]], Nov 18 2009 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 225]], Nov 11 2009 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 224]], Nov 4 2009 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 223]], Oct 28 2009 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 222]], Oct 21 2009 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 221]], Oct 14 2009 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 220]], Oct 7 2009 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 219]], Sep 28 2009 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 218]], Sep 23 2009 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 217]], Sep 12 2009 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 216]], Sep 9 2009 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 215]], Sep 1 2009 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 214]], Aug 25 2009 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 213]], Aug 18 2009 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 212]], Aug 12 2009 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 211]], Aug 4 2009 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 210]], Jul 29 2009 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 209]], Jul 22 2009 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 208]], Jul 11 2009 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 207]], Jul 1 2009 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 206]], Jun 18 2009 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 205]], Jun 16 2009 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 204]], Jun 11 2009 {{i}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 203]], Jun 9 2009 {{mag}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 202]], Jun 3 2009 {{mag}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 201]], May 27 2009 {{mag}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 200]], May 20 2009 {{mag}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 199]], May 13 2009 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 198]], May 7 2009 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 197]], Apr 30 2009 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 196]], Apr 22 2009 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 195]], Apr 15 2009 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 194]], Apr 8 2009 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 193]], Apr 1 2009 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 192]], Mar 25 2009 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 191]], Mar 18 2009 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 190]], Mar 12 2009 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 189]], Mar 4 2009 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 188]], Feb 26 2009 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 187]], Feb 11 2009 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 186]], Feb 9 2009 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 185]], Feb 4 2009 {{mag}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 184]], Jan 28 2009 {{mag}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 183]], Jan 21 2009 {{i}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 182]], Jan 15 2009 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 181]], Jan 7 2009 {{Open}}<br />
<br />
<br />
<span id="2008"><big>'''2008'''</big></span><br />
----<br />
* [[SGU Episode 180]], Dec 30 2008 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 179]], Dec 23 2008 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 178]], Dec 16 2008 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 177]], Dec 3 2008 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 176]], Nov 20 2008 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 175]], Nov 10 2008 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 174]], Nov 18 2008 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 173]], Nov 12 2008 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 172]], Nov 5 2008 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 171]], Oct 29 2008 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 170]], Oct 22 2008 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 169]], Oct 11 2008 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 168]], Oct 8 2008 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 167]], Oct 1 2008 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 166]], Sep 24 2008 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 165]], Sep 17 2008 {{mag}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 164]], Sep 10 2008 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 163]], Sep 3 2008 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 162]], Aug 26 2008 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 161]], Aug 20 2008 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 160]], Aug 13 2008 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 159]], Aug 6 2008 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 158]], Jul 30 2008 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 157]], Jul 23 2008 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 156]], Jul 16 2008 {{tick}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 155]], Jul 9 2008 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 154]], Jul 2 2008 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 153]], Jun 21 2008 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 152]], Jun 11 2008 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 151]], Jun 9 2008 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 150]], Jun 4 2008 {{mag}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 149]], May 28 2008 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 148]], May 21 2008 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 147]], May 14 2008 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 146]], May 7 2008 {{tick}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 145]], Apr 30 2008 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 144]], Apr 23 2008 {{tick}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 143]], Apr 16 2008 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 142]], Apr 9 2008 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 141]], Apr 2 2008 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 140]], Mar 26 2008 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 139]], Mar 19 2008 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 138]], Mar 12 2008 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 137]], Mar 5 2008 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 136]], Feb 27 2008 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 135]], Feb 20 2008 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 134]], Feb 13 2008 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 133]], Feb 6 2008 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 132]], Jan 30 2008 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 131]], Jan 23 2008 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 130]], Jan 16 2008 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 129]], Jan 9 2008 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 128]], Jan, 2 2008 {{Open}}<br />
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<br />
<span id="2007"><big>'''2007'''</big></span><br />
----<br />
* [[SGU Episode 127]], Dec 26 2007 {{tick}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 126]], Dec 19 2007 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 125]], Dec 12 2007 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 124]], Dec 5 2007 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 123]], Nov 28 2007 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 122]], Nov 20 2007 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 121]], Nov 14 2007 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 120]], Nov 7 2007 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 119]], Oct 30 2007 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 118]], Oct 24 2007 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 117]], Oct 17 2007 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 116]], Oct 10 2007 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 115]], Oct 3 2007 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 114]], Sep 27 2007 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 113]], Sep 19 2007 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 112]], Sep 12 2007 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 111]], Sep 5 2007 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 110]], Aug 28 2007 {{tick}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 109]], Aug 24, 2007 {{mag}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 108]], Aug 11 2007 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 107]], Aug 8 2007 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 106]], Aug 1 2007 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 105]], Jul 25 2007 {{mag}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 104]], Jul 18 2007 {{open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 103]], Jul 11 2007 {{tick}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 102]], Jul 3 2007 {{tick}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 101]], June 20 2007 {{open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 100]], June 19 2007 {{open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 99]], June 13 2007 {{tick}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 98]], June 6 2007 {{tick}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 97]], May 30 2007 {{tick}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 96]], May 23 2007 {{open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 95]], May 16 2007 {{open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 94]], May 9 2007 {{open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 93]], May 3 2007 {{open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 92]], Apr 25 2007 {{open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 91]], Apr 18 2007 {{open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 90]], Apr 10 2007 {{open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 89]], Apr 4 2007 {{open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 88]], Mar 28 2007 {{open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 87]], Mar 21 2007 {{open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 86]], Mar 14 2007 {{open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 85]], Mar 7 2007 {{open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 84]], Feb 28 2007 {{open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 83]], Feb 21 2007 {{open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 82]], Feb 15 2007 {{open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 81]], Feb 7 2007 {{open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 80]], Jan 31 2007 {{open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 79]], Jan 24 2007 {{open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 78]], Jan 15 2007 {{open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 77]], Jan 10 2007 {{open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 76]], Jan 3 2007 {{open}}<br />
<br />
<br />
<span id="2006"><big>'''2006'''</big></span><br />
----<br />
* [[SGU Episode 75]], Dec 27 2006 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 74]], Dec 20 2006 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 73]], Dec 13 2006 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 73]], Dec 13 2006 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 72]], Dec 6 2006 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 71]], Nov 29 2006 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 70]], Nov 21 2006 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 69]], Nov 15 2006 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 68]], Nov 8 2006 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 67]], Nov 1 2006 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 66]], Oct 25 2006 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 65]], Oct 18 2006 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 64]], Oct 11 2006 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 63]], Oct 4 2006 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 62]], Sep 27 2006 {{tick}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 61]], Sep 20 2006 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 60]], Sep 13 2006 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 59]], Sep 5 2006 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 58]], Aug 30 2006 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 57]], Aug 23 2006 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 56]], Aug 15 2006 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 55]], Aug 9 2006 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 54]], Aug 2 2006 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 53]], Jul 26 2006 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 52]], Jul 19 2006 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 51]], Jul 12 2006 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 50]], Jul 5 2006 {{Open}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 49]], Jun 28 2006 {{tick}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 48]], Jun 21 2006 {{mag}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 47]], Jun 14 2006 {{mag}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 46]], Jun 7 2006 {{mag}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 45]], May 31 2006 {{mag}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 44]], May 24 2006 {{mag}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 43]], May 17 2006 {{mag}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 42]], May 10 2006 {{tick}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 41]], May 3 2006 {{mag}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 40]], Apr 26 2006 {{mag}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 39]], Apr 19 2006 {{mag}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 38]], Apr 12 2006 {{mag}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 37]], Apr 6 2006 {{mag}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 36]], Mar 29 2006 {{tick}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 35]], Mar 22 2006 {{mag}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 34]], Mar 15 2006 {{mag}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 33]], Mar 9 2006 {{tick}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 32]], Mar 1 2006 {{tick}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 31]], Feb 22 2006 {{tick}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 30]], Feb 15 2006 {{tick}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 29]], Feb 8 2006 {{tick}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 28]], Feb 1 2006 {{tick}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 27]], Jan 25 2006 {{tick}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 26]], Jan 17 2006 {{tick}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 25]], Jan 11 2006 {{tick}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 24]], Jan 6 2006 {{tick}}<br />
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<br />
<span id="2005"><big>'''2005'''</big></span><br />
----<br />
* [[SGU Episode 23]], Dec 21 2005 {{tick}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 22]], Dec 14 2005 {{tick}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 21]], Dec 7 2005 {{tick}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 20]], Nov 23 2005 {{tick}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 19]], Nov 16 2005 {{tick}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 18]], Nov 2 2005 {{tick}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 17]], Oct 26 2005 {{tick}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 16]], Oct 12 2005 {{tick}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 15]], Oct 6 2005 {{tick}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 14]], Sep 28 2005 {{tick}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 13]], Sep 14 2005 {{tick}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 12]], Sep 7 2005 {{tick}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 11]], Aug 31 2005 {{tick}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 10]], Aug 23 2005 {{tick}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 9]], Aug 10 2005 {{tick}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 8]], Aug 2 2005 {{tick}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 7]], Jul 20 2005 {{tick}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 6]], Jul 7 2005 {{tick}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 5]], Jun 29 2005 {{tick}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 4]], Jun 15 2005 {{tick}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 3]], Jun 7 2005 {{tick}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 2]], Jun 1 2005 {{tick}}<br />
* [[SGU Episode 1]], May 4 2005 {{tick}}<br />
|}<br />
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</noinclude></div>ReliefTwitcherhttps://www.sgutranscripts.org/w/index.php?title=SGU_Episode_691&diff=11420SGU Episode 6912018-10-11T11:33:24Z<p>ReliefTwitcher: </p>
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<br />
<br />
== Introduction ==<br />
''You're listening to the Skeptics' Guide to the Universe, your escape to reality.''<br />
<br />
== News Items ==<br />
=== Item 1 <small>()</small>===<br />
<br />
== Who's That Noisy? <small>()</small>==<br />
<br />
== Questions and Emails <small>()</small> ==<br />
=== Traumatic memory <small>(57:47)</small>===<br />
<br />
S: So we're gonna do one e-mail this week. This comes from Daniel Mangum from Tigard, Oregon--Oregon, er, T-I-G-A-R-D. TEE-gard? TIG-urd? TIG-ard?<br />
<br />
J: TIG-eeeard...<br />
<br />
E: Arrrrd, yes.<br />
<br />
S: I don't know how to pronounce that. He writes: "I got my SGU book today…yipppeee! I started reading and finished chapter 2 on memory. I know you guys avoid politics as much as possible, but would you consider talking about this subject in the context of the recent testimony by Dr. Blasey Ford and Judge Kavanaugh?"<br />
<br />
E: No.<br />
<br />
S: Uh, well, Daniel--<br />
<br />
E: No.<br />
<br />
S: Thanks for the positive comments about the book; this is the week the book launches, so we're getting a lot of people telling us about their experience reading the book; we appreciate it. So, yes, this is--while we do not try to get into political discussions, meaning talking about, like, promoting any particular partisan position or ideology, informing the science behind a politically important subject is exactly what we do, right? And so this is--this is interesting cause this is something that a lot of people are talking about in the last couple of weeks and most people have no idea what they're talking about, right?<br />
<br />
E: Right.<br />
<br />
S: And so they're going to then default to whatever their political opinion is, whereas I think what we should be doing is, regardless of what side of this issue we're on in terms of our partisan afiliations, we should try to get the science correct.<br />
<br />
S: So let's--let's try to do that. Let's just, you know, try to back up a little bit, take a deep breath and say, alright, what do we know? And the good news is is that a lot has been written about this over the years, so I can go back and read an article about how do--does emotional trauma affect memory, for example. That was written a year ago, or two years ago. And it's not about this case or biased about it, it's just saying, "Here's what the literature shows," right? <br />
<br />
S: As you might imagine, this is a complicated question. But this is the gist of what the research says so far: so, there's a lot of--first of all, there's a lot of context that we could talk about and there's a lot of different types of memory that we could talk about. Memory itself is a complicated thing. Let me hit the highlights that I think would be relevant in trying to understand this kind of case.<br />
<br />
S: If you've been living under a rock, you know Dr. Blasey Ford has accused Judge Kavanaugh, who is Donald Trump's nominee for the Supreme Court, that, when they were in high school, when he was 17 and she was 15, at party, he got drunk, he and his friend, whose name is Judge, right? Mark Judge, Mike Judge, were in--they took her to a bedroom and Bret Kavanaugh sexually assaulted her, tried to rape her, but she was able to escape, you know, before there was any actual rape. But he did sexually assault her. Of course, this is 36 years ago, yeah, and Dr. Blasey Ford says she's 100 percent certain that this happened and that it was Bret Kavanaugh who did it; Bret Kavanaugh says he's 100 percent certain that he didn't do it; that this event never happened.<br />
<br />
E: And that he also says we was not at the said party. <br />
<br />
S: That's, that's a more complicated bit because, uh, Ford--<br />
<br />
E: That's his claim.<br />
<br />
S: Well, yeah, but what party, right? The thing is--yeah, he's saying--did he say that he was never at any party with Ford?<br />
<br />
E: Uh, no he didn't say...I don't know if he's saying that.<br />
<br />
S: So, here's the thing: so Ford says--is able to recall certain details about this evening. Uh, she--there's, like, random details about the house and what happened. She says that, while this was happening, the two guys were laughing and their laughter's burned into her memory. But she's not exactly sure where the house was or what day it was that this happened and she's not quite sure how she got home, for example. But she is sure about some details. And so this has sparked the discussion: what is the significance of her memory--her partial memory of this event? Does this call into question the credibility of her memory, or of her sincerity, of her veracity?<br />
<br />
S: Okay, what do we know about memory in general and memory that results from an emotionally traumatic event, specifically, right? So, memories in general, we know, again, if you read the book, our chapter in the book on this, memories are terrible. <br />
<br />
E: Oh, yeah.<br />
<br />
S: From the moment they're created, they're a partial narrative about happened. We select what information gets through. You know, this is all usually subconcious. It's filtered; it's biased by our expectations and our perceptions and what we already think is going on. You know, we have sort of a narrative about what we believe happened; that becomes our memory and then, over time, that memory morphs. It could morph with other memories; you can fuse details, you can switch details; you can switch the perspective. A third-person memory can become a first-person memory, etc.<br />
<br />
S: But: there is some research on the effects of emotionally charged events on memory. And what they show is that high emotion tends to increase memory. But usually only if it's a negative emotion. So, negative emotions have, uh, enhanced memory. But the evidence suggests they have what's called focal memory enhancement. And what that means is that some details are enhanced while others are not. And that is--<br />
<br />
E: That's complex. Oh my gosh.<br />
<br />
S: It's complicated, but--so what ends up happening is--and, of course, you know, for example, women who have been sexually assaulted, raped, or whatever, anything that would be, you know, a violent encounter like that, they tend to have these vivid, stable, clear memories of specific details. And, really, they weren't processing and don't really remember, or their memories just fade for other details. They fade or morph, or whatever. And so you end up with this patchy kind of memory. "Oh, I distinctly remember what music was playing, but I don't know where we were." You know, that's a very typical feature of a negative--emotionally negative traumatic memory. That's what the research shows.<br />
<br />
S: But there's also another phenomenon, which has been demonstrated, and that's called memory enhancement. And what happens is as people remember emotionally traumatic events, they may--their memory may alter to enhance the emotional significance of the event. This is worsened--uh, this effect is increased if you try to visualize, like if you force yourself to remember, or to re-live the event, or to visualize it. So, it's something that very easily can happen in therapy, for example. <br />
<br />
S: My takeaway from all of this is that Dr. Ford's memory is actually completely compatible with the research on what the memory of that type of event would be like. Certain details are vivid; certain details are burned into her memory; she reports other details are lost or foggy or faded. That's typical. The fact that she doesn't remember those things does not call into question the veracity of her memory. It's not incompatible with a traumatic memory; it's actually completely typical of it.<br />
<br />
S: However, the research also suggests that there may be details of her memory that are not accurate because they may have been enhanced over the years. As she remembers it, more details that support the theme and the emotional content of the memory may have been mixed in. What I would say is, you know, I would totally believe that, maybe she remembers it as being worse than it was, because that's what tends to happen is these memories can get worse over time. That's actually--a lot of that is discussed in the literature on post-traumatic stress disorder, right? And the idea there is that PTSD--you know, people with PTSD can actually make their symptoms worse by remembering the event over time and, actually, the memory becomes more traumatic than the event itself because the memory gets enhanced and they need to try to work against that.<br />
<br />
S: So, you know, I think that Ford's therapist would have probably a lot better idea of which of these processes were at work or, like, how plausible is it that, like, how much has she been dwelling on this over the years? How much has she had therapy where she's had to re-live it or recount it, or et cetera? That's always why contemporaneous accounts are always so valuable, because anything that locks in details at the time they happened, we know that they haven't drifted or enhanced over the--been enhanced over the years.<br />
<br />
S: So, that could explain--you know, the other thing is people are trying to say, "Is it possible they're both telling the truth here?" Well, you know, I'm not gonna try to make those kind of judgements, and people are going to have strong feelings about this one way or the other. But is it possible that Kavanaugh did something that--I mean, it's hard to imagine that she didn't have a traumatic experience, right? And I think that some details like "Who was the person assulating her" is something that she would remember. Right? So those are probably details that are accurate. But maybe it wasn't as bad as she remembers? Not to minimize what happened but, just in, in other words, it's possible that Kavanaugh's memory of it is like, "Oh, it wasn't that bad," and her memory of it was that it was really bad and the truth is somewhere in the middle. You know what I mean? He might have--his memory may have minimized it over the years, or may in fact not remember, although he vehemently denies ever blacking out. You know, that's a separate issue that, you know, that is being explored in the media, but, you know, if we're just saying "What are the possibilities here?" It's possible that he sort of whitewashed the memory over the years, or he just doesn't remember all of it or parts of it and it's possible that her memory's accurate; it's also possible her memory's been enhanced, and thay may explain why they're far apart, right? <br />
<br />
S: But, having said all that, there's no reason--the details of her memory give us no reason to be suspicious of her sincerity. Let me say that. You can't say, "Oh, if this were a real memory, she would not forget those details." That's wrong. That, we can say is flat-out wrong. Uh, remembering some details vividly and forgetting others is absolutely typical. But, obviously, there's a huge range of possibilities within what we know from research about the way memory works specifically for traumatic events. So, of course, within that wiggle room, you know, people could place themselves along the continuum wherever they want, in alignment with their partisan proclivities.<br />
<br />
E: As a side note to all that, this has been a opportunity--I kind of hate to use that word--for people to learn more about memory overall, and a lot of misconceptions and--<br />
<br />
S: Yeah, ideally, these events would be just that, Evan, opportunities to learn, you know, objectively, about things like memory and traumatic events, et cetera. But, unfortunately, I think people take their corners, you know. Our experience is that highly charged controversies are not a good time to teach people stuff because they're not really open to being taught; they're very defensive. <br />
<br />
E: Yes, everyone's getting in their trenches. <br />
<br />
S: Yeah, in general, we say it's better to engage people and teach them on topics that they're not emotional about because they'll be better able to learn and to understand and to process it. But they reason why I think it's important for us to talk about this is because we're not only teaching about memory in the abstract; we're trying to model how to respond to these controversial events, and I think that one way to do that is to try to back up; to try to be objective, and to be aware of your bias and your partisanship and your ideology and say, "Alright, I'm gonna sort of step out of it and not let that influence me and try to look objectively at what the evidence actually says and what the experts actually say, rather than just taking a side and, you know, making a lawyer's case for that side, which is what most people are doing. It's hard, though, it's hard.<br />
<br />
E: Very hard.<br />
<br />
S: But I think it's important to try. And, you know, again, I'm trying not to get political, but I to think that we need to, at times--<br />
<br />
E: Too late!<br />
<br />
S: Well, there are political implications of critical thinking, right? I think that being reasonable, rational, and critical thinking is especially important at times like this. And that means that there has to be a rational conversation to have in the middle where we find common ground. And when you go to the extremes and you justify that in whatever way you justify it, you know, even if it is justified, I think you have to make even all the more of an effort to say, "Okay, a reasonable person would be angry or defensive, or whatever in this situation, but I'm going to try to rise above it and maintain some kind of objective, you know, reasonableness because if we don't, then we lose our ability to function. You know, and I think that's--I've read a lot about this and I think the one common thread in discussion of this which I agree with is like the one thing--this is a muddy mess, but the one thing we can all agree on is how disfunctional the whole process is.<br />
<br />
J: Sure. Yeah.<br />
<br />
E: I agree.<br />
<br />
S: But I think that, how do we get out of it, then? How do you get out of the disfunction? By just saying, "Okay, we gotta find some common ground in the middle, and facts are the common ground. Which is why this whole "post-fact" thing is so upsetting, because, without facts, we have no common ground, and then we can't--that's when the system is broken. We need to be able to at least agree on some kind of basic shared reality. Right? Otherwise, there is no common ground, there's no hope for any workable process. <br />
<br />
== Science or Fiction <small>()</small> ==<br />
<br />
== Skeptical Quote of the Week <small>()</small> ==<br />
<blockquote>The biggest gift of science is teaching us how to free our mind. So stay skeptical, be curious, and ask questions. - Vince Ebert (German entertainer and science communicator)<br />
</blockquote><br />
<br />
== Announcements <small>()</small> ==<br />
<br />
<br />
{{Outro404}} <!-- inserts the template containing the voiceover outro (including links) for episodes 404 onwards. For older episodes use:<br />
{{Outro1}} - episodes 301-403 (inclusive)<br />
{{Outro291}} - episodes 291-300 (inclusive)<br />
episodes 289 & 290 use the same text as 291-300, but are voiced by Steve<br />
{{Outro119}} - episodes 119-288 (inclusive)<br />
{{Outro61}} - episodes 61-118 (inclusive)<br />
{{Outro39}} - episodes 39-60 (inclusive)<br />
{{Outro30}} - episodes 30-38 (inclusive)<br />
{{Outro18}} - episodes 18-29 (inclusive)<br />
--><br />
<br />
== References ==<br />
<references/><br />
<br />
{{Navigation}} <!-- inserts images that link to the previous and next episode pages --></div>ReliefTwitcherhttps://www.sgutranscripts.org/w/index.php?title=SGU_Episode_691&diff=11419SGU Episode 6912018-10-11T02:36:37Z<p>ReliefTwitcher: </p>
<hr />
<div>{{LatestEpisode}}<br />
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{{InfoBox <br />
|episodeNum = 691<br />
|episodeDate = 6<sup>th</sup> October 2018 <!-- broadcast date --><br />
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|forumLink = https://sguforums.com/index.php/topic,50681.0.html<br />
|qowText = 'The biggest gift of science is teaching us how to free our mind. So stay skeptical, be curious, and ask questions.' <!-- add quote of the week text--><br />
|qowAuthor = Vince Ebert (German entertainer and science communicator) <!-- add author and link --><br />
|}}<br />
<br />
<br />
== Introduction ==<br />
''You're listening to the Skeptics' Guide to the Universe, your escape to reality.''<br />
<br />
== News Items ==<br />
=== Item 1 <small>()</small>===<br />
<br />
== Who's That Noisy? <small>()</small>==<br />
<br />
== Questions and Emails <small>()</small> ==<br />
=== Traumatic memory <small>(57:47)</small>===<br />
<br />
S: So we're gonna do one e-mail this week. This comes from Daniel Mangum from Tigard, Oregon--Oregon, er, T-I-G-A-R-D. TEE-gard? TIG-urd? <br />
<br />
J: TIG-eeeard...<br />
<br />
E: Ahhh, yes.<br />
<br />
S: I don't know how to pronounce that. He writes: "I got my SGU book today…yipppeee! I started reading and finished chapter 2 on memory. I know you guys avoid politics as much as possible, but would you consider talking about this subject in the context of the recent testimony by Dr. Blasey Ford and Judge Kavanaugh?"<br />
<br />
E: No.<br />
<br />
S: Uh, well, Daniel--<br />
<br />
E: No.<br />
<br />
S: Thanks for the positive comments about the book; this is the week the book launches, so we're getting a lot of people telling us about their experience reading the book; we appreciate it. So, yes, this is--while we do not try to get into political discussions, meaning talking about, like, promoting any particular partisan position or ideology, informing the science behind an important political subject is exactly what we do, right? And so this is--this is interesting cause this is something that a lot of people are talking about in the last couple of weeks and most people have no idea what they're talking about, right?<br />
<br />
E: Right.<br />
<br />
S: And so they're going to then default to whatever their political opinion is, whereas I think what we should be doing is, regardless of what side of this issue we're on in terms of our partisan afiliations, we should try to get the science correct.<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
== Science or Fiction <small>()</small> ==<br />
<br />
== Skeptical Quote of the Week <small>()</small> ==<br />
<blockquote>The biggest gift of science is teaching us how to free our mind. So stay skeptical, be curious, and ask questions. - Vince Ebert (German entertainer and science communicator)<br />
</blockquote><br />
<br />
== Announcements <small>()</small> ==<br />
<br />
<br />
{{Outro404}} <!-- inserts the template containing the voiceover outro (including links) for episodes 404 onwards. For older episodes use:<br />
{{Outro1}} - episodes 301-403 (inclusive)<br />
{{Outro291}} - episodes 291-300 (inclusive)<br />
episodes 289 & 290 use the same text as 291-300, but are voiced by Steve<br />
{{Outro119}} - episodes 119-288 (inclusive)<br />
{{Outro61}} - episodes 61-118 (inclusive)<br />
{{Outro39}} - episodes 39-60 (inclusive)<br />
{{Outro30}} - episodes 30-38 (inclusive)<br />
{{Outro18}} - episodes 18-29 (inclusive)<br />
--><br />
<br />
== References ==<br />
<references/><br />
<br />
{{Navigation}} <!-- inserts images that link to the previous and next episode pages --></div>ReliefTwitcherhttps://www.sgutranscripts.org/w/index.php?title=SGU_Episode_691&diff=11418SGU Episode 6912018-10-11T02:23:14Z<p>ReliefTwitcher: </p>
<hr />
<div>{{LatestEpisode}}<br />
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|}}<br />
{{InfoBox <br />
|episodeNum = 691<br />
|episodeDate = 6<sup>th</sup> October 2018 <!-- broadcast date --><br />
|episodeIcon = File:LogoSGU.png <!-- use "File:" and file name for image on show notes page--><br />
|previous = 690 <!-- not required, automates to previous episode --><br />
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|cara = <!-- leave blank if absent --><br />
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|guest3 = <!-- leave blank if no third guest --><br />
|downloadLink = http://media.libsyn.com/media/skepticsguide/skepticast2018-10-06.mp3<br />
|forumLink = https://sguforums.com/index.php/topic,50681.0.html<br />
|qowText = 'The biggest gift of science is teaching us how to free our mind. So stay skeptical, be curious, and ask questions.' <!-- add quote of the week text--><br />
|qowAuthor = Vince Ebert (German entertainer and science communicator) <!-- add author and link --><br />
|}}<br />
<br />
<br />
== Introduction ==<br />
''You're listening to the Skeptics' Guide to the Universe, your escape to reality.''<br />
<br />
== News Items ==<br />
=== Item 1 <small>()</small>===<br />
<br />
== Who's That Noisy? <small>()</small>==<br />
<br />
== Questions and Emails <small>()</small> ==<br />
=== Traumatic memory <small>(57:47)</small>===<br />
<br />
S: So we're gonna do one e-mail this week. This comes from Daniel Mangum from Tigard, Oregon--Oregon, er, T-I-G-A-R-D. TEE-gard? TIG-urd? <br />
<br />
J: TIG-eeeard...<br />
<br />
E: Ahhh, yes.<br />
<br />
S: I don't know how to pronounce that. He writes: "I got my SGU book today…yipppeee! I started reading and finished chapter 2 on memory. I know you guys avoid politics as much as possible, but would you consider talking about this subject in the context of the recent testimony by Dr. Blasey Ford and Judge Kavannaugh?"<br />
<br />
E: No.<br />
<br />
S: Uh, well, Daniel--<br />
<br />
E: No.<br />
<br />
S: Thanks for the positive comments about the book; this is the week the book launches, so we're getting a lot of people telling us about their experience reading the book; we appreciate it. So, yes, this is--while we do not try to get into political discussions, meaning talking about, like, promoting any particular partisan position or ideology, informing the science behind an important political subject is exactly what we do, right? And so this is--this is interesting cause this is something that a lot of people are talking about in the last couple of weeks and most people have no idea what they're talking about, right?<br />
<br />
E: Right.<br />
<br />
S: And so they're going to then default to whatever their political opinion is, whereas I think what we should be doing is, regardless of what side of this issue we're on in terms of our partisan afiliations, we should try to get the science correct.<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
== Science or Fiction <small>()</small> ==<br />
<br />
== Skeptical Quote of the Week <small>()</small> ==<br />
<blockquote>The biggest gift of science is teaching us how to free our mind. So stay skeptical, be curious, and ask questions. - Vince Ebert (German entertainer and science communicator)<br />
</blockquote><br />
<br />
== Announcements <small>()</small> ==<br />
<br />
<br />
{{Outro404}} <!-- inserts the template containing the voiceover outro (including links) for episodes 404 onwards. For older episodes use:<br />
{{Outro1}} - episodes 301-403 (inclusive)<br />
{{Outro291}} - episodes 291-300 (inclusive)<br />
episodes 289 & 290 use the same text as 291-300, but are voiced by Steve<br />
{{Outro119}} - episodes 119-288 (inclusive)<br />
{{Outro61}} - episodes 61-118 (inclusive)<br />
{{Outro39}} - episodes 39-60 (inclusive)<br />
{{Outro30}} - episodes 30-38 (inclusive)<br />
{{Outro18}} - episodes 18-29 (inclusive)<br />
--><br />
<br />
== References ==<br />
<references/><br />
<br />
{{Navigation}} <!-- inserts images that link to the previous and next episode pages --></div>ReliefTwitcherhttps://www.sgutranscripts.org/w/index.php?title=SGU_Episode_691&diff=11417SGU Episode 6912018-10-11T02:15:09Z<p>ReliefTwitcher: </p>
<hr />
<div>{{LatestEpisode}}<br />
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|}}<br />
{{InfoBox <br />
|episodeNum = 691<br />
|episodeDate = 6<sup>th</sup> October 2018 <!-- broadcast date --><br />
|episodeIcon = File:LogoSGU.png <!-- use "File:" and file name for image on show notes page--><br />
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|bob = y <!-- leave blank if absent --><br />
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|guest3 = <!-- leave blank if no third guest --><br />
|downloadLink = http://media.libsyn.com/media/skepticsguide/skepticast2018-10-06.mp3<br />
|forumLink = https://sguforums.com/index.php/topic,50681.0.html<br />
|qowText = 'The biggest gift of science is teaching us how to free our mind. So stay skeptical, be curious, and ask questions.' <!-- add quote of the week text--><br />
|qowAuthor = Vince Ebert (German entertainer and science communicator) <!-- add author and link --><br />
|}}<br />
<br />
<br />
== Introduction ==<br />
''You're listening to the Skeptics' Guide to the Universe, your escape to reality.''<br />
<br />
== News Items ==<br />
=== Item 1 <small>()</small>===<br />
<br />
== Who's That Noisy? <small>()</small>==<br />
<br />
== Questions and Emails <small>()</small> ==<br />
=== Traumatic memory <small>(55:55)</small>===<br />
<br />
S: So we're gonna do one e-mail this week. This comes from Daniel Mangum from Tigard, Oregon--Oregon, er, T-I-G-A-R-D. TEE-gard? TIG-urd? <br />
J: TIG-eeeard...<br />
E: Ahhh, yes.<br />
S: I don't know how to pronounce that. He writes: "I got my SGU book today…yipppeee! I started reading and finished chapter 2 on memory. I know you guys avoid politics as much as possible, but would you consider talking about this subject in the context of the recent testimony by Dr. Blasey Ford and Judge Kavannaugh?"<br />
E: No.<br />
S: Uh, well, Daniel--<br />
E: No.<br />
S: Thanks for the positive comments about the book; this is the week the book launches, so we're getting a lot of people telling us about their experience reading the book; we appreciate it. So, yes, this is--while we do not try to get into political discussions, meaning talking about, like, promoting any particular partisan position or ideology, informing the science behind an important political subject is exactly what we do, right? And so this is--this is interesting cause this is something that a lot of people are talking about in the last couple of weeks and most people have no idea what they're talking about, right?<br />
E: Right.<br />
S: And so they're going to then default to whatever their political opinion is, whereas I think what we should be doing is, regardless of what side of this issue we're on in terms of our partisan afiliations, we should try to get the science correct.<br />
<br />
== Science or Fiction <small>()</small> ==<br />
<br />
== Skeptical Quote of the Week <small>()</small> ==<br />
<blockquote>The biggest gift of science is teaching us how to free our mind. So stay skeptical, be curious, and ask questions. - Vince Ebert (German entertainer and science communicator)<br />
</blockquote><br />
<br />
== Announcements <small>()</small> ==<br />
<br />
<br />
{{Outro404}} <!-- inserts the template containing the voiceover outro (including links) for episodes 404 onwards. For older episodes use:<br />
{{Outro1}} - episodes 301-403 (inclusive)<br />
{{Outro291}} - episodes 291-300 (inclusive)<br />
episodes 289 & 290 use the same text as 291-300, but are voiced by Steve<br />
{{Outro119}} - episodes 119-288 (inclusive)<br />
{{Outro61}} - episodes 61-118 (inclusive)<br />
{{Outro39}} - episodes 39-60 (inclusive)<br />
{{Outro30}} - episodes 30-38 (inclusive)<br />
{{Outro18}} - episodes 18-29 (inclusive)<br />
--><br />
<br />
== References ==<br />
<references/><br />
<br />
{{Navigation}} <!-- inserts images that link to the previous and next episode pages --></div>ReliefTwitcherhttps://www.sgutranscripts.org/w/index.php?title=SGU_Episode_691&diff=11416SGU Episode 6912018-10-11T02:02:38Z<p>ReliefTwitcher: Created page with "{{LatestEpisode}} {{Editing required |transcription = y <!-- |proof-reading = y please remove commenting mark-up when some transcription is present --> |t..."</p>
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|guest3 = <!-- leave blank if no third guest --><br />
|downloadLink = http://media.libsyn.com/media/skepticsguide/skepticast2018-10-06.mp3<br />
|forumLink = https://sguforums.com/index.php/topic,50681.0.html<br />
|qowText = 'The biggest gift of science is teaching us how to free our mind. So stay skeptical, be curious, and ask questions.' <!-- add quote of the week text--><br />
|qowAuthor = Vince Ebert (German entertainer and science communicator) <!-- add author and link --><br />
|}}<br />
<br />
<br />
== Introduction ==<br />
''You're listening to the Skeptics' Guide to the Universe, your escape to reality.''<br />
<br />
== News Items ==<br />
=== Item 1 <small>()</small>===<br />
<br />
== Who's That Noisy? <small>()</small>==<br />
<br />
== Questions and Emails <small>()</small> ==<br />
=== Question 1 <small>()</small>===<br />
<br />
== Interview with "..." <small>()</small> ==<br />
<br />
== Science or Fiction <small>()</small> ==<br />
<br />
== Skeptical Quote of the Week <small>()</small> ==<br />
<blockquote><br />
</blockquote><br />
<br />
== Announcements <small>()</small> ==<br />
<br />
<br />
{{Outro404}} <!-- inserts the template containing the voiceover outro (including links) for episodes 404 onwards. For older episodes use:<br />
{{Outro1}} - episodes 301-403 (inclusive)<br />
{{Outro291}} - episodes 291-300 (inclusive)<br />
episodes 289 & 290 use the same text as 291-300, but are voiced by Steve<br />
{{Outro119}} - episodes 119-288 (inclusive)<br />
{{Outro61}} - episodes 61-118 (inclusive)<br />
{{Outro39}} - episodes 39-60 (inclusive)<br />
{{Outro30}} - episodes 30-38 (inclusive)<br />
{{Outro18}} - episodes 18-29 (inclusive)<br />
--><br />
<br />
== References ==<br />
<references/><br />
<br />
{{Navigation}} <!-- inserts images that link to the previous and next episode pages --></div>ReliefTwitcherhttps://www.sgutranscripts.org/w/index.php?title=SGU_Episode_540&diff=10245SGU Episode 5402015-11-29T19:51:30Z<p>ReliefTwitcher: /* Low Calorie Sweeteners () */</p>
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|qowAuthor = {{w|Eugenie Clark}} <!-- add author and link --><br />
|}}<br />
<br />
== Introduction ==<br />
''You're listening to the Skeptics' Guide to the Universe, your escape to reality.''<br />
<br />
== What's the Word <small>()</small> ==<br />
* Formication<br />
<br />
== News Items ==<br />
=== Low Calorie Sweeteners <small>()</small> ===<br />
* https://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/low-energy-sweeteners-and-weight-control/<br />
<br />
S: Alright, so we have some interesting news items this week. We're gonna start with one about low-calorie sweetners. You know, like, aspartame, sucralose--<br />
<br />
E: Stevia?<br />
<br />
S: Stevia...I hate stevia.<br />
<br />
E: That stuff'll kill ya. (laughter)<br />
<br />
S: So there was a recent, systematic review of pretty much all of the studies looking at any information about using so-called low-energy sweeteners, or LES, and changes in total energy intake or in weight and body mass. Very interesting because this has been controversial over many years and it's a good, sort of, review of the different kinds of scientific evidence and how we use them.<br />
<br />
So, here's the question: if you drink diet soda sweetened with aspartame or sucralose, versus drinking sugar-sweetened drinks, versus drinking, let's say, water, what's the net effect on your calorie intake and your weight? Right, now the common-sense, sort of knee-jerk response is, "Well, if you're replacing 3- or 400 calories of sugar-sweetened drinks per day with zero-calorie drinks, you should be skipping out on 3- or 400 calories." You know, it seems pretty obvious.<br />
<br />
But, of course, life is always more complicated than that. Because the body is complicated and there's all kinds of feedback mechanisms and unintended consequences. It turns out that the answer may be far more complicated. For example, psychologically, people may think, "Oh, I'm having a diet soda; I can afford to have that cheesecake." (laughter) You know, it's called compensation.<br />
<br />
E: To rationalize it.<br />
<br />
S: Yeah, you compensate by increasing your caloric intake elsewhere because you feel like you've earned it, because you're--<br />
<br />
C: It's like how, at Starbuck's, I get non-fat milk so I can add whip! (laughter)<br />
<br />
S: So, compensation definitely exists; the question is how much? Is it enough to offset the reduction in the sugar that you're missing out on? <br />
<br />
There are some biological mechanisms as well. For example, the GI tract has sweet receptors. What are they doing? Does that affect your appetite?<br />
<br />
J: Why does that have sweet receptors?<br />
<br />
S: Well, because the GI system detects things like what you eat and affects your behavior. It send signals--hormonal signals--to your brain. It's also--there's this idea of learning: that you're tricking the brain by giving it something sweet that doesn't have calories that your brain then begins to disassociate the sensation of sweetness with caloric intake. And that can result in you craving more calories overall.<br />
<br />
E: Right.<br />
<br />
S: Right? Does that make sense?<br />
<br />
E: Yeah.<br />
<br />
S: That's the question and it may not be as obvious as it at first seems. So there have been several kinds of studies looking at this question, and you've probably seen headlines over the last 10 years: "Diet sodas make you obese," or whatever. Everytime one of these studies comes out, the press presents it as if this is the final, definitive word on whether or not low-energy sweeteners are good or bad for you.<br />
<br />
C: And, also, sometimes they're funded by, like, "THE AMERICAN BEVERAGE ASSOCIATION." (laughter) I've seen that happen a couple times recently and you're like, "I don't know about that."<br />
<br />
J: (affected) "Isn't it delicious?" (laughter)<br />
<br />
S: There are animal studies. Animal studies have the advantage of we can control everything that they do and everything that they consume. These are mostly done in rats. You can either feed them--you can sweeten their water with either sugar or low-energy sweeteners, or you can force the pills down their throat, and then you give them food that is sweetened, like, it's a little bit of sweetener in it.<br />
<br />
And what these studies generally find is that, if you force-feed rats a lot of low-energy sweeteners, they may actually over-consume lightly sweetened food. So that's--most of the headlines that you see, and it says, you know, "Low-energy sweeteners make you obese," probably most of them were rat studies.<br />
<br />
A couple of problems with these studies: one is that, you know, rats aren't people and the laborotory situations that they're putting the rats in are very contrived. There may be lots of reasons why the rats will consume more feed that have nothing to do with human behavior. That data may be suggestive but it really isn't definitive in terms of its application to people.<br />
<br />
The next type of study is observational. Right, so you're not randomizing people to eating low-energy sweetener or not, you're just seeing what they're doing and what their weight is. Or you might do cohort studies where you follow them going forward. And those generally show conflicting results.<br />
<br />
C: It seems like there would be so many confabulating factors there.<br />
<br />
S: Yeah, that's the weakness of observational studies--is that they're confabulating. And the authors of this new review argued that you can't make cause-and-effect claims because it's quite possible that people who are overweight choose to drink diet drinks because they're trying to lose weight. You know, they're not overweight because they're drinking the soda; they're drinking the soda because they're overweight. So, yeah, the confounding factors make it impossible, really, to make any kind of cause-and-effect conclusion from those studies.<br />
<br />
So now we get to the most clinically relevant types of studies, where you do experiments on people and you randomize them, and you might even blind them to whether or not they're drinking sugar-sweetened or low-energy-sweetener-sweetened beverages, and then follow their behavior. And those studies find, in this systematic review, that drinking low-energy sweetener results in a decrease in caloric intake and weight.<br />
<br />
C: Oh, wow!<br />
<br />
S: So those studies are broken down into short- and long-term. Short term studies are basically one meal. Right, you give people--you pre-load them with either sugar, or water or aspartame, and then you let them eat as much of a meal as they want and you see how much they eat. <br />
<br />
C: So that's just caloric intake. You can't look at weight after one meal, right?<br />
<br />
S: Yeah, that's just energy intake, exactly.<br />
<br />
C: Okay.<br />
<br />
S: And they find that there is compensation; that people do eat more if they drank the low-energy sweetened beverage, but not enough to make up for the decrease in the sugar calories. And so there still is a net decrease in caloric intake. And they said any effects of having had the low-energy sweetener probably wouldn't last much beyond that next meal, anyway, so this data is helpful.<br />
<br />
But there are also long-term studies. Long-term studies last anywhere from days to three years. The longest studies last up to three years. Looking at people, again randomized, and perhaps even blinded to whether or not they were drinking sugar-sweetened, low-energy-sweetener sweetened, and then also compared to just drinking water. And they found, long-term, again, there was an overall decrease in energy intake and an overall decrease in weight with the low-energy sweetener--even when compared to water, which is what I found most surprising in this data.<br />
<br />
C: Oh, wow!<br />
<br />
S: Because there's no calorie difference between the two; between water--zero-calorie water and zero-calorie diet soda. But still there was a little bit of an advantage to the sweetened zero-calorie beverage. But there was a clear advantage over drinking sugar. Which, again, one of those situations where the science confirms your initial assessment, the sort of common-sense assessment that says, "Yeah, not drinking 500 calories of sugar a day is a good thing for your energy intake and your overall weight.<br />
<br />
So, whatever compensatory mechanisms are in there, whether they're psychological or biological, they're not offsetting the reduction in calories by avoiding the sugar. It's still a good idea, you know, to not drink sugary drinks if you're trying to manage your weight.<br />
<br />
B: Of course.<br />
<br />
C: But what if when you get--when you're accidentally served a Diet coke, as opposed to a regular Coke at a restaurant, it tastes like you've been poisoned!<br />
<br />
S: So you just don't like the flavor of it.<br />
<br />
E: ...or the surprise.<br />
<br />
C: I cannot handle it. It's disgusting. It's so gross. I don't know, I think it's one of those things where it's like an acquired taste, and I've not--<br />
<br />
S: It is, it's an acquired taste, in my experience, and I've had many other people make this observation to me. I think there are just differences in people's tastes, so that could be just genetic for you. But many people have the experience that, at first, they don't like it, it doesn't taste sweet enough, or something, there's just something not right about it. And then, after a while, they can't stand going back to sugar-sweetened drinks because they taste so syrupy and heavy and thick, and they prefer the diet drinks.<br />
<br />
C: Yeah.<br />
<br />
S: That was my personal experience. I can't stand sugar-sweetened drinks now. I only drink the calorie-free ones. And other people have made the same observation to me. So I think, yeah, the taste thing is personal and also acquired. And also, before we begin getting emails about this, the evidence does not support that there's any cancer risk, or any other health risk from aspartame or sucralose; they're totally fine. We are not gonna do a deep dive on that--<br />
<br />
E: (laughing) Oh, gosh.<br />
<br />
S: --just to say, "Don't believe the Internet." There's just a lot of misinformation about them on the Internet. The data actually doesn't support any health risk--<br />
<br />
E: Dosage matters!<br />
<br />
S: Yeah.<br />
<br />
C: (chuckles)<br />
<br />
S: Like, in the studies, even like with saccharine--saccharine got a bad rap as causing cancer, but the amount they were giving the rats in those studies was orders of magnitude more than you would ever consume. And the FDA, and also the European Union and other regulatory agencies set safety limits on how much you can consume by body weight, and it's typically, again, it's about a couple of orders of magnitude more than what a typical person would consume, so, it's just not something worth worrying about.<br />
<br />
You can drink your diet sodas; you don't have to worry that they're making you fat, according to this latest systematic review. They really did look at--they tried to look at every single study published, of any kind on this question; it was pretty, pretty thorough. Not saying there isn't room for even more rigorous clinical studies, but the data's pretty rigorous, you know, that we have so far.<br />
<br />
The other last interesting thing I want to talk about is that you read so many self-help books and nutrition gurus, you know, they're talking about this diet advice or that, or how to avoid aspartame, et cetera, and they usually justify their recommendation with wild extrapolations from basic science. You know, it's like, "We have sweetness receptors in our gut and that causes A to B to C to D, and therefore it's not good for you."<br />
<br />
E: There you go.<br />
<br />
S: It's like, yeah, but you know we rarely can take our basic science knowledge and then extrapolate four or five steps to net health effects. You can't do that. That almost never works out. You have to study in people what the net health effects are. Because like here, yeah, sure, those mechanisms are in play, but they're just less than the effect of eating less sugar. It all comes down to magnitude. Even if the effects are real and there isn't something compensating for it, it just may not be clinically relevant. So, until you do the clinical studies, you just can't make those kinds of statements. But that is like almost the entire nutrition industry. You know, self-help industries based upon these wild extrapolations from basic science. That is just not reliable.<br />
<br />
=== Making Metals Stronger <small>()</small> ===<br />
* http://phys.org/news/2015-11-metals-stronger-sacrificing-ductility.html<br />
<br />
=== Mafia hitman claims to be missing piece in JFK assassination <small>()</small> ===<br />
* http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/617775/Shot-JFK-grassy-knoll-Mafia-hitman-assassination-interview?utm_source=traffic.outbrain&utm_medium=traffic.outbrain&utm_term=traffic.outbrain&utm_content=traffic.outbrain&utm_campaign=traffic.outbrain<br />
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=== Fossilized Brains <small>()</small> ===<br />
* http://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/how-fossilize-brain-180957219/?no-ist<br />
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== Who's That Noisy <small>()</small> ==<br />
* Answer to last week: Architectural Instrument<br />
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== Questions and Emails ==<br />
=== Question #1: Anxiety <small>()</small> ===<br />
<blockquote>I would like to begin this message by telling you that I love the show and have been a loyal subscriber since 2008. However, Jay mentioned something in the last episode that I would like to correct. He stated that people who needed anxiolytic medication didn't have the 'brass balls' to do things such as go to space and that they allowed their emotions to overcome them in such a way that they would be unsuitable for such a rigorous environment as the ISS. I would like to point out that Isaac Newton's notebooks record his anxiety, fears, and depression during his college years, as well as suicidal thoughts. Nicola Tesla almost certainly suffered from social anxiety. Scientists often work in collaborative teams these days, but there are many quiet, meticulous, solitary tasks that a person with anxiety is exceptionally good at completing. Our tendency to double and triple check things can be a good trait for lab work, as does the anxious brain's tendency to keep churning our every word and action after the fact. I know that it is a common trope in pop culture to portray those of us who suffer from what is essentially a lack of seretonin as nervous wrecks, but I assure you, we are quite capable. There are many medications that can remediate this chemical imbalance and settle our thoughts, but the anxious person can offer something to a team, just as it benefits with both introverts and extroverts, or autistic and other neuro-atypical people. Jay, I'm sure you didn't mean to stigmatize anyone or to downplay the accomplishments of those with psychiatric illnesses. And there is a concern about being stranded and without the trusty SSRIs, a la The Martian, where it might be harder to function. But, in the future, remember that every team needs diversity. People whose brains function differently can be an asset as well as a risk. Sincerely, Someone who worries an awful lot http://www.space.com/26799-nasa-astronauts-psychological-evaluation.html</blockquote><br />
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=== Question #2: Meat Consumption <small>()</small> ===<br />
<blockquote>Toni, I tried to find some specific statistics on meat consumption. 2010 statistics from the USDA http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3045642/ 'Results: Overall meat consumption has continued to rise in the U.S., European Union, and developed world. Despite a shift toward higher poultry consumption, red meat still represents the largest proportion of meat consumed in the U.S (58%). Twenty-two percent of the meat consumed in the U.S. is processed. According to NHANES 2003–2004, total meat intake averaged 128 g/day. The type and quantities of meat reported varied by education, race, age, and gender.' 22% of 128g/day = 28 grams of processed meat per day on average, less than the 50grams in the study. Given this, I think we gave a reasonable bottom line interpretation of the implications of the study. Regarding meat and total health outcomes, I did refer to it on the show, here's the link:http://www.biomedcentral.com/1741-7015/11/63/abstract I did link in the show notes to my blog article which contains this link and others. Regards, Steve Dear Steve, 'Given this, I think we gave a reasonable bottom line interpretation of the implications of the study.' Yes, indeed. The statistic you provided puts the WHO study into context. Now I'm a vegetarian thinking, if only people would eat more processed meat.. But, as I clearly have no case anymore, I concede my position and thank you for taking the time to respond. This was fun. Kind regards, Toni</blockquote><br />
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== Interview with Simon Singh <small>()</small> ==<br />
* http://simonsingh.net/<br />
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== Science or Fiction <small>()</small> ==<br />
[http://news.vanderbilt.edu/2015/11/quantum-dots-made-from-fool%E2%80%99s-gold-boost-battery-performance/ Item #1]: A new report describes a method for adding quantum dots to standard lithium ion batteries, allowing a cell phone to fully charge in 30 seconds.<br />
[http://www.aaps.org/News/Press_Room/Press_Releases/Medicines_Do_Not_Seem_to_Degrade_Faster_in_Space/ Item #2]: A study looking at medications stored aboard the ISS finds that, on average, drugs in microgravity degrade at twice the normal rate.<br />
[http://www.upi.com/Science_News/2015/11/11/Scientists-invent-worlds-first-porous-liquid/5471447277687/ Item #3]: Scientists have created the first porous liquid, a liquid with holes, allowing it to dissolve large amounts of gas.<br />
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== Skeptical Quote of the Week <small>()</small> ==<br />
<blockquote>"We ignore public understanding of science at our peril" - Eugenie Clark</blockquote><br />
<br />
{{Outro404}}<br />
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== References ==<br />
<references/><br />
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